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Old 07-31-2019, 01:32 PM
 
19,480 posts, read 12,336,074 times
Reputation: 10723

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax View Post
No.

My position is that luck is the largest overriding factor in becoming wealthy. That has nothing to do with taxes it has to do with the act of becoming wealthy.

The graduated tax scale we have now is fine (as I said earlier) no one should be disincentived from making another buck, but some level of diminishing returns is acceptable.
............... and you are as dead wrong as you were before.


Everyone I know who is wealthy became so through hard work. You make your own "luck" through work, preparation, and education.


Saying "luck" is the cause of most wealth excuses yourself of any personal responsibility for your economic situation. As liberals are victims and fail to take personal responsibility for anything, it is not surprising that this would be a common liberal position.


If "luck" was the cause of most wealth, most wealthy people would have achieved their wealth through gambling or the lottery. This, of course, is absurd. Most wealthy people became so through hard work and dedication. Very few found Leprechaun gold and became rich.
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Florida
22,481 posts, read 9,565,215 times
Reputation: 18346
Why should they pay less?

And why does the GOP feel the wealthy need an emergency tax cut? Why are only liberal outlets even reporting this?

Cruz, et. al. go directly to Mnuchin to ask for an executive order tax cut for the wealthiest in the country? And everyone is ok with this? Done this way? A bunch of Republicans want it, so sneakily go in the back door to get a magic tax cut? So much for transparency. It stinks.

"...Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, a longtime critic of presidents who use executive action, sent a letter signed by 20 of his Republican colleagues asking the Trump administration to unilaterally slash taxes for the rich.

The Republican senators sent a letter to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin on Monday asking him to use his “authority” to index capital gains to inflation. The move would allow investors to pay lower taxes on profits made from selling real estate, stocks or bonds by adjusting the original purchase price so that there would be no tax liability on appreciation tied to inflation...."

https://www.salon.com/2019/07/31/ted...e-rich-please/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ains-tax-break

https://www.salon.com/2019/07/31/ted...e-rich-please/
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Near Falls Lake
2,831 posts, read 1,933,561 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
If I was so fortunate to be a millionaire, I wouldn't mind paying more taxes for the common good as long as I remained a millionaire after doing so.
Most millionaires I know pay a very substantial amount in income taxes!! Whether or not it is for the public good is certainly debatable.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:03 PM
 
4,116 posts, read 6,438,571 times
Reputation: 4215
One might think that CD folks are billionaires in their defense of the rich. The original idea was that if the wealthy had more money then much of that money would trickle down to the working folks. That started around the Reagan era but not one cent has ever trickled down. With Trump's latest give-away most corporations began buying back their stock and nothing was spent on expansion. The corporations that did expand limited it to automation and robotic installations thereby eliminating more jobs.

We currently have a corporate run government with the working class paying the freight.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle
939 posts, read 205,950 times
Reputation: 1022
A separate, exclusive tax on the wealthy to help pay interest on the national debt would incentivize the Republican party to reduce it's profligate deficit spending ways. The larger the debt payments, the greater the tax. Income tax levels can then remain the same as now.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:23 PM
 
4,939 posts, read 1,380,114 times
Reputation: 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
If "luck" was the cause of most wealth, most wealthy people would have achieved their wealth through gambling or the lottery. This, of course, is absurd. Most wealthy people became so through hard work and dedication. Very few found Leprechaun gold and became rich.
Nope, false - that isn't the logical results of what I am saying at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
............... and you are as dead wrong as you were before.

Everyone I know who is wealthy became so through hard work. You make your own "luck" through work, preparation, and education.
Your subjective experience is driven by selection bias.

So lets ask some questions to get started:

What country were you born in?
If the answer is America that is already a 1/16 chance right there relative to world population.

0, 1, or 2 parents?

What income bracket were your parents in? Homeless, Poor, Middle Class, Upper Middle, Rich, Other? If you were born on the streets to a homeless junky do you think you would have ended up in the same place you are now?

Did you have any catastrophic illnesses or injury during the formative years of your life? Funny what a bad car wreck or a case of cancer will do to a young college students educational career.

At the time you received your degrees, what would the total cost of all those degree's be?

Did you pay for your own degrees?

If so, how so: By taking on debt? By working while going to college? Or other?

How bout genetics? If you made it through med school, I'd assume you are above average intelligence - another lucky break! Would you be in the same place with a 70 iq? Doubtful.


Bad enough luck in most of these questions can be enough to obliterate any level of hard work and dedication and that's a fact. Please note I never said that hard work has nothing to do with it, it is just subservient to the type of every day luck that sees you born in a first world country instead of say, Syria or North Korea, the type of luck that keeps you disease and injury free for your adult working life, etc etc etc.

The reality is a confluence of "lucky" factors put you in a position where with some hard work, you were able to take advantage of your situation and the opportunities available to you and become successful. A simple change of location of birth could have resulted in a completely different set of opportunities, where you may not have had the same chance, regardless of how much work you invested.

Last edited by zzzSnorlax; 07-31-2019 at 02:56 PM..
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Near Falls Lake
2,831 posts, read 1,933,561 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
One might think that CD folks are billionaires in their defense of the rich. The original idea was that if the wealthy had more money then much of that money would trickle down to the working folks. That started around the Reagan era but not one cent has ever trickled down. With Trump's latest give-away most corporations began buying back their stock and nothing was spent on expansion. The corporations that did expand limited it to automation and robotic installations thereby eliminating more jobs.

We currently have a corporate run government with the working class paying the freight.
While it is unlikely that there are any billionaires on this forum, I can guarantee you that there are plenty of millionaires! So you don't think anything "trickles down" ....not one penny? So when a wealthy person spends money on a yacht, what happens?
By the way, you need to do a little research to see who pays the most taxes!
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
26,889 posts, read 11,293,387 times
Reputation: 6184
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
How is that class warfare against the rich?

If anything thats class warfare by the rich against the working class through bribes and manipulation.
Since when does every millionaire bribe and manipulate? You're upset because they work harder and smarter than you and get rewarded for it? Yea don't want to reward people for hard work nowadays right? Free market be damned.
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Old 07-31-2019, 05:54 PM
 
19,044 posts, read 9,705,375 times
Reputation: 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
A separate, exclusive tax on the wealthy to help pay interest on the national debt would incentivize the Republican party to reduce it's profligate deficit spending ways. The larger the debt payments, the greater the tax. Income tax levels can then remain the same as now.
Why is that? The rich already pays most of the taxes.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:37 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
5,941 posts, read 2,849,998 times
Reputation: 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
When politicians say that the rich should pay more in taxes I ask pay more for what reason?

When you look at the democrats who are running for president. They all want medicare-for-all and some form of free college. These things would require more taxation. But many Americans disagree with these things and the higher taxes that will come with them. So should the rich be paying more in taxes just to provide more funding for things many Americans disagree with? Aren't the rich paying enough taxes to cover our current government services and programs?
Millionaire/billionaire CEO's pay 14% effective federal tax rates.
https://money.cnn.com/2012/09/21/pf/...ey-tax-return/
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ower-tax-rate/

Americans making $200,000 pay 22% effective federal tax rates.
Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2019

And Americans making $500,000 a year pay 30% effective federal tax rates.
Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2019
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