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Old Yesterday, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Barrington
46,249 posts, read 34,238,582 times
Reputation: 15420

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsthetime View Post
Judging by the size of that crowd, this guy will never be president.
And the body language of the adults in the crowd.
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Old Yesterday, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,913 posts, read 10,646,911 times
Reputation: 34143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifty Seven View Post
Anyone who feels nostalgic about that photo wants us to return to the racism and oppression of women that was rampant in that time.

The world isn't a college campus. That gar-baghe of hitting every attempt to reminisce or wax nostalgic with the knee-jerk racist-sexist charge isn't going to fly with me, Bub.

Good try, no cigar.
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Old Today, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,943 posts, read 6,661,995 times
Reputation: 6301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
When was Tokyo more free, after ww2 when people were building their own homes with little zoning regulation or today?

I am absolutely not a libertarian in any way shape or form. Libertarians love progress and development.

Take Lhasa vs. Shanghai. I've only been to one (Lhasa) but I would see people do things that are unthinkable in most developed cities:

Open markets in vacant buildings, outdoor restrooms, etc. Same with Tehran.

Further along development goes, the more regulated society becomes. I'm not saying its bad or good thing, its just reality.

Go to Bolivia or Peru, some of the least developed societies in south America and then go to Los Angeles, New York, or some other city in the USA.

People live with less regulation and order. Again job opportunity is not freedom, especially when jobs are strictly structured to be productive and managed by financial institutions like Private Equity firms or state institutions.

East Asia is a highly regulated region with a highly regulated culture. Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Seoul, etc. are the standard.

Is that freedom, what about compared to shanty towns with little need for top down authority by government or financial institutions.


You can say Humans are better off in highly pacified, controlled, and dense cities but that doesn't change the fact that personal freedoms are by consequence curbed.


Freedom has nothing to do with Market choice. In fact that's why someone in a village in Mongolia who doesn't have access to any of the consumer goods someone in Beijing has is still freer by how much authority they have over their own lives.

That is why I am skeptical of those who support relentless capitalization of human labor and capital for the sake of efficiency.

Freedom as a concept still matters. Complicated institutions require by nature less freedom to manage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

There's really no need to overthink this as an intellectual exercise.

Really, at the end of the day, ask - is your life overall better on balance?

Sure, maybe in the old days, you had the "freedom" to build your lean-to in a squatter camp and nobody would bother you. At the same time, industries and governments had more "freedom" to send pollutants into the air and water. And you and I had more "freedom" to have higher rates of ashma, birth defects, cancer because of that.

Miss me with that kind of mental or intellectual masturbation.
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Old Today, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Here.
13,969 posts, read 12,697,826 times
Reputation: 16383
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtt99 View Post
Love the kid with a gun behind JFK.
Lee Harvey Oswald before he figured it out.
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Old Today, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,793 posts, read 2,713,501 times
Reputation: 2602
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
There's really no need to overthink this as an intellectual exercise.

Really, at the end of the day, ask - is your life overall better on balance?

Sure, maybe in the old days, you had the "freedom" to build your lean-to in a squatter camp and nobody would bother you. At the same time, industries and governments had more "freedom" to send pollutants into the air and water. And you and I had more "freedom" to have higher rates of ashma, birth defects, cancer because of that.

Miss me with that kind of mental or intellectual masturbation.
Most pollutants came from corrupt companies looking to make a quick buck, it was the excesses of early stage industrial capitalism.

Having simpler lives was better though, and if development was not so incentivized I think society would be more balanced and better today.

Its not about getting rid of modern technology, its about decentralizing its management and rate of usership.

Having a freer society based on community and not just productivity and economic growth can make our society better.

In fact lowering consumption is the best tool to fight environmental damage.
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