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Old 07-31-2019, 07:03 PM
 
3,941 posts, read 1,868,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Natives suffered a 90% small pox die-off in a single generation. Once that happened they had no chance at militarily repelling Europeans and they knew it. That's why the would agree to obvious bad deals and kept moving west. Had there been no small pox die off it would have been a situation like Africa, with a few Europeans living surrounded by natives.
Lol what?
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:04 PM
 
1,402 posts, read 275,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Great idea. Please contact your Democratic presidential candidates. They should run on this to beat Trump in 2020, along with reparations.
Especially Warren. This should be her #1 platform issue.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
4,965 posts, read 5,856,501 times
Reputation: 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Natives suffered a 90% small pox die-off in a single generation. Once that happened they had no chance at militarily repelling Europeans and they knew it. That's why the would agree to obvious bad deals and kept moving west. Had there been no small pox die off it would have been a situation like Africa, with a few Europeans living surrounded by natives.
Apples to oranges. Aside from disease, the American Indians never progressed beyond the stone age. Yes the Inca and Maya understood astronomy, built great stone monuments and cities, and had developed a written language, but never invented the wheel, never worked metal aside from gold and some copper.

The Aztecs, aside from the human sacrifice, were also cannibals. Cortez didn't defeat them with a handful of tough conquistadors, he allied with all the tribes the Aztec had been feeding on.

The Anistazi built great cities in the deserts, irrigation, raising crops of squash, beans and corn, raised turkeys as livestock, but couldn't adapt when the deserts got drier and their civilization vanished.

America was settled 200 years before the imperial powers started claiming large segments of Africa.
Africa and Europe had always known about each other, and worked together. The Arabs and native tribes had supplied slaves north since Roman times, and they bought white slaves from them, and later the Byzantines, Vikings and others.

This mixing exposed the Africans to European diseases, but Europeans never developed immunities to many of the diseases endemic to Africa.

Malaria and sleeping sickness are just 2 of a hundred diseases you can get in Africa, and before the age of vaccines, very few Europeans aside from traders looking for gold, slaves and ivory ventured there in any numbers until the age of imperialism in the 19th century. Much easier and safer to trade with the Arabs and avoid Darkest Africa.

It was easier in Asia to install puppet governments and buy Maharajas in India, or just control trade and food to bring a country into submission, to rape at will without actually taking responsibility for the country you'd just taken over politically.

North America had a climate familiar to Europeans. It didn't have the diseases, and really didn't have a unified government. Each tribe was sovereign to itself and most lived in a state of constant warfare with their neighbors.

Disease weakened the tribes true, but they were never united and could never match the Europeans technologically or numerically.

Because they hated each other as much as they hated the whites, they would lead attacks on their enemy tribes using the strength and numbers of the whites to get power for themselves. It rarely worked out that way, but you don't share information with your enemies, so the tactic worked over and over until the tribes were subdued.

Custer even had Crow scouts when he was massacred by Sioux and Chyenne at the battle of the Little Big Horn.

It's easy to romanticize the American Indians as the "Noble Savage" of books like the Last Of The Mohicans, but that was a fictional story.

Neither side in the Indian Wars was innocent. The Indians were just as likely to raid white settlements as whites to raid Indian.

Look at a little history. You'll find it's full of humans being human and having no problem doing unspeakable things to each other.

The Indians lost the wars. There aren't any do overs. Even if they got the land you want to give them, that world of noble primitives living in a pristine Eden never really existed.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:33 PM
 
52,346 posts, read 42,118,364 times
Reputation: 32664
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
I feel we need to return certain land to the Native Americans, especially if it's just sitting there like most BLM land.

Found this interesting in my research on the topic. Eagerly awaiting the outcome.

Supreme Court: Should Eastern Oklahoma Be Considered An Indian Reservation? (NPR)



Other interesting articles on the topic of returning Native American lands:

In Tribe v. State Cases, Supreme Court Shifts Support to Native Americans (Governing)

Returning Stolen Land to Native Tribes, One Lot at a Time (Civil Eats)

The US government should cede territory back to Native Americans (The Guardian)
Seems to me you're finally taking notice to an ancient issue?

Because this issue has been around for longer than any of us has been alive.

A lot of these types of issues are more popular to bring up now because Trump is in the WH instead of Obama. *shrug*

I'll leave the issue to the courts.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:36 PM
 
52,346 posts, read 42,118,364 times
Reputation: 32664
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Especially Warren. This should be her #1 platform issue.
Well I'm sure she cares the appropriate 1/1024th like the rest of us minorities.

Seriously, I have to get a DNA test. I just cannot wait until I can start referring to myself as African, Asian or Native American because back in the days of Columbus one of my relatives was 1/2 non-white.

Anyone giving crap to me about this is racist. Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:36 PM
 
7,453 posts, read 2,700,871 times
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I have no problem giving Oklahoma back to the native indians. The current residents have f**kced it up beyond all recognition.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,875 posts, read 17,833,333 times
Reputation: 15885
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
I feel we need to return certain land to the Native Americans, especially if it's just sitting there like most BLM land.

Found this interesting in my research on the topic. Eagerly awaiting the outcome.

Supreme Court: Should Eastern Oklahoma Be Considered An Indian Reservation? (NPR)



Other interesting articles on the topic of returning Native American lands:

In Tribe v. State Cases, Supreme Court Shifts Support to Native Americans (Governing)

Returning Stolen Land to Native Tribes, One Lot at a Time (Civil Eats)

The US government should cede territory back to Native Americans (The Guardian)
Then why don't you go first. Turn your home over to NAs.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:56 PM
 
24,607 posts, read 12,148,404 times
Reputation: 10488
I wouldn’t give a square foot back.

They lost the war. To the victor go the spoils.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:29 PM
 
9,391 posts, read 2,877,638 times
Reputation: 5671
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
So called “natives” are immigrants as well.

Thread fail.
Not my thread so not my fail.

We are all immigrants as we migrated from Africa, where we all had our beginnings.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:30 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,607 posts, read 17,897,961 times
Reputation: 31104
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
You don't think it's right to give back land that was stolen? I'm not for reparations at all. To any group.

Land, different story.
Should we give land currently occupied by Iroquois to Algonquin peoples? Land occupied by Navajos to Puebloans?

I am all for ensuring that Native Americans are able to fully benefit from the advantages of being American citizens (i.e. extending infrastructure and social programs to underserved areas), and maintaining sovereignty over their current holdings, but the whole concept of land ownership in pre-Columbian America is so vague, to the point of non-existence, that any attempt to create it so it can be "rightfully" distributed would be such a morass of baseless claims that it would create more problems for Native Americans than they are already dealing with.
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