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Old 08-01-2019, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Pensacola, Florida
738 posts, read 697,562 times
Reputation: 476

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
The Indians were a Stone Age, violent, warring culture that enslaved and murdered each other. They were replaced, and then largely assimilated into a technologically more advanced culture. It has happened all over the world at various times.

There is no going back.
Lol. So, BLM land sitting right next to their Reservations should just sit there?

No, ma'am.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:03 AM
 
352 posts, read 173,757 times
Reputation: 674
Maybe you could start by giving up your house? It seems unfair you havenít offered up your possessions to atone for the past. It would be great to see you lead by example.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Pensacola, Florida
738 posts, read 697,562 times
Reputation: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonman1 View Post
Maybe you could start by giving up your house? It seems unfair you havenít offered up your possessions to atone for the past. It would be great to see you lead by example.
If you'd read the thread, you'd know I'm part Cherokee. Already occupying my rightful land.

Thanks for playing, though.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:21 AM
 
2,610 posts, read 891,737 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
Sure. The Normans should return England to the Saxons, the Saxons should return it to the Britons.

Perhaps the French should return their land to the Goths, who got it from the Romans, who got it from the Celts.

We could return land to the Indians of Mongolian decent, and the could return it to the Solutrian decent peoples ( of European decent, the Clovis people that predate paleo-Indians), and they could return it to the Red Paint people that predate them, and also share European connections.

Well, since the Red Paint people and Clovis peoples are the earliest settlers in North America yet identified by archeology, and since they both have European connections, I guess reparations have already been taken care of and the right people already have possession of the land.
If there is any land give-backs done, it will be by the government. Last I checked, there was no Norman or Saxon or Clovis government. The land that the OP is talking about was seized by the US government by force or through breech of treaties, and remains under government control. Not sure if I favor give-backs, but it would be feasible for these BLM lands, as opposed to telling some Florida resident that he has to vacate his home and give it to the Seminoles.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,807 posts, read 3,896,613 times
Reputation: 3623
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
If you'd read the thread, you'd know I'm part Cherokee. Already occupying my rightful land.

Thanks for playing, though.
Cherokee did not control Florida. You are not on your 'rightful land'.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:39 AM
 
5,439 posts, read 3,400,570 times
Reputation: 6622
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Do you think they really want it anymore?
That's what I was thinking. I've lived in Tucson for 7 years and got to explore a ton of the desert southwest over that time, including driving on numerous reservations, and I don't really see a point.

Some of those reservations are huge (land-wise) and they already have tiny populations living on them. Most of that BLM land out there is quite beautiful, but desolate, what are the natives going to do with even more land, they don't even use all of the land they have now?

How about an even better idea would be to continue to make the healthcare on these reservations better and better so they can help fight and treat disease like diabetes and alcoholism, that's probably a lot better than giving them desolate BLM land?
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Ohio
20,179 posts, read 14,382,123 times
Reputation: 16375
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
I feel we need to return certain land to the Native Americans, especially if it's just sitting there like most BLM land.
Great, another fact-less emotion-based argument.

In International Law, there's an animal called Customary Law.

It's not a treaty. It's not even written down, but every country agrees to follow Customary Law.

The Customary Law of the Sea existed for 1,000 years before Britain wrote UNCLOS-I and UNCLOS-II.

Long before the Geneva Conventions were written, there was the Customary Law of Land Warfare.

And, there was the Customary Law of Land Usage.

The Customary Law of Land Usage says that any land that is developed, meaning there are permanent structures such as dwelling places, market places or storage structures or wells, roads, boundary markers delineating personal, clan or tribal property or field fortifications is considered to be owned even if there is no formal written property deed or title.

Since the Indian tribes on the Great Plains were nomadic, they did not have any developed land, so they did not own the land.

No land was stolen from them and I would point out they constantly slaughtered each other to hunt where other tribes were hunting.

The semi-nomadic Indian tribes like the Sac & Fox who roamed around Wisconsin and Illinois did not have any developed land, either, so no land was stolen from them. It was free for the taking for whoever wanted to develop it.

That's why the Dutch bought Manhattan Island from the Manhattan tribe, because that land was developed and under the Customary Law of Land Usage, it was owned by the Manhattan tribe.

That's also why British colonists in the 100+ New England Colonies and parts of New York didn't force the Indians off their land and they still live there today.

But, other Indian tribes like the Shawnee and Miami in Ohio and Indiana and the Hopi do have legitimate legal claims, because the United States forced them off the land.

The newly formed United States government did not subscribe to the Customary Law of Land Usage, because they were christians and god gave them the land and since Indians were heathens, it was all doubleplusgood.

If you want to rest your laurels on treaties, well, that fails because any party to a treaty can abrogate the treaty at any time for any reason or no reason at all.

And it fails because of the rank order of International Law.

You know how in the US the Constitution trumps everything, then federal statutes are next, followed by State constitutions, then State statutes, then county, borough or parish laws and ordinances and then municipal ordinances?

Well, International Law is like that.

No. 1 is jus cogens. Nothing trumps that.

No. 2 is Customary Law.

No. 3 is treaties.

Prior to the arrival of Europeans, the Indians didn't do much, except slaughter each other.

After Europeans arrived, they didn't much, either, except they still found the time to slaughter each other.

After they were put on reservations, they didn't do much of anything, either, but at least they weren't slaughtering each other.

Giving Indians land isn't going to help them, but moving into the 21st Century will.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:59 AM
 
Location: USA
18,742 posts, read 9,179,836 times
Reputation: 14097
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
Lol. So, BLM land sitting right next to their Reservations should just sit there?

No, ma'am.

BLM land is owned by the American Citizens. So, maybe change your tampon and move on.
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Old 08-01-2019, 12:02 PM
 
11,782 posts, read 2,915,758 times
Reputation: 5456
Do we really need more casinos?
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Old 08-01-2019, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
3,276 posts, read 1,632,249 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
Yet, Trump's new pick for BLM Director wants to sell it instead of doing the right thing.

Trumpís pick for managing federal lands doesnít believe the government should have any (Washington Post)

When was the last time you were on an Indian reservation? Besides a Casino that is.

Most reservations are unkempt, run down waste lands with tar paper shacks and abandoned cars and appliances. After billions have been invested on Natives Americans reservations not much has changed in 200 years. Kind of reminds me of either Detroit or Baltimore where billions have be squandered with little to show except their leaders in both in $1000 suits.



Where I live we have at least 9 or more reservations and one Trust land area within 100 miles and some are not a place a normal person would not want to live.
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