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Old 08-01-2019, 08:04 PM
 
46,209 posts, read 18,302,407 times
Reputation: 19286

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
....
A vast majority of economists say ......
There's your big failing. Pseudo science substituted for good scientific method backed by sound industrial policy.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
7,206 posts, read 7,857,235 times
Reputation: 5814
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Well, Jim IF your still reading......it is the policy position of the Democrat Party.
I’m not surprised. And Democrats call Republicans authoritarian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Just a few weeks ago....the only thing that kept Oregon from imposing a carbon tax was the Republicans left the state so there was no quorum in the Legislature. After the next election, it might be a different outcome.
Hopefully not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
I guess NOBODY wants to save the planet.....sort of like "everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die".
Save the planet from what? The US could stop using fossil fuels tomorrow and it wouldn’t make a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Then WHY are we spending so much time talking about climate change as a society??
Damn good question. I’ve watched the climate change argument morph from “aerosols are destroying the atmosphere” to “we’re heading into a new ice age” to “the icecaps are melting” to “we must tax cow flatulence to stop climate change”. I’m not sure why anyone listens to the alarmists anymore.

All that being said, we seriously, as a society, need to stop using taxes as a weapon. The founding fathers would kick our collective *** for letting the country go this route.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,783 posts, read 3,717,621 times
Reputation: 16902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
People who are against carbon taxes always (conveniently?) leave out the REBATE.
All carbon taxes are recycled back to taxpayers through a tax rebate.
This creates a huge incentive for motorists to buy electric vehicles and for factories to swap equipment because you come out ahead, you get a rebate but didn't pay the carbon tax.
That's the whole point.
A vast majority of economists say a carbon tax with rebate is the most painless way to address the ongoing climate crisis.
The OP said nothing about a rebate, so I responded on that basis. Offering incentives to conserve is indeed a more effective solution than draconian laws or penalties.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:11 PM
509 509 started this thread
 
3,057 posts, read 4,130,102 times
Reputation: 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
People who are against carbon taxes always (conveniently?) leave out the REBATE.
All carbon taxes are recycled back to taxpayers through a tax rebate.
This creates a huge incentive for motorists to buy electric vehicles and for factories to swap equipment because you come out ahead, you get a rebate but didn't pay the carbon tax.
That's the whole point.
A vast majority of economists say a carbon tax with rebate is the most painless way to address the ongoing climate crisis.
Yep, I get all of that. I had so many economics classes that the Federal government actually hired me as a economist for four years!!

Rebates are fine, except for the poor, those that cannot read, and others on the margin of society. Those folks never get the rebates.

Remember how rebates worked with office supply houses. The government is not far behind them and lack of public service, unfortunately.

I don't like rebates....what is wrong with driving 55 MPH. Simple, everybody does it.

No government employees managing the program, no new taxes, no paperwork.....just drive 55 MPH.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:17 PM
 
9,984 posts, read 4,703,025 times
Reputation: 5584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
People who are against carbon taxes always (conveniently?) leave out the REBATE.
All carbon taxes are recycled back to taxpayers through a tax rebate.
This creates a huge incentive for motorists to buy electric vehicles and for factories to swap equipment because you come out ahead, you get a rebate but didn't pay the carbon tax.
That's the whole point.
A vast majority of economists say a carbon tax with rebate is the most painless way to address the ongoing climate crisis.
And the working poor, millions of them, who cannot afford a new car even with rebates will become jobless, because of no way to get to work.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:21 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
9,053 posts, read 2,575,108 times
Reputation: 4774
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
And a lot of roadkill.
A perfect way to lower CO2 emissions. Darwin for the win.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:37 PM
 
9,513 posts, read 4,353,121 times
Reputation: 11121
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Transportation is the major source of CO2 emissions in western countries.

From the European version of EPA.....Transport is the only sector whose greenhouse emissions increased between 1990 and 2008. Transport’s total GHG output rose 25 % in the 32 EEA member countries (this excludes the international maritime and aviation sectors), accounting for 19.5 % of total emissions. CO2 is the main component of transport greenhouse gas emissions (99 %) and road transport is, in turn, the largest contributor to these emissions (around 94 % in 2008), thus accounting for 18.2% of total emissions.

As noted in this article, the French think reducing speed limits will reduce CO2 emissions by 30%!!!

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/...mit-autobahns/

That is huge!!

The Democrats are proposing a carbon tax or cap and trade policy when it comes to C02 emissions. However, to get a 30% reduction via taxes would require a ADDITIONAL gas tax of THREE to FIVE dollars a gallon.

The alternative is much simpler and cheaper. Drop the speed limit to 55 MPH.

BTW....70% or more of the transportation CO2 emissions come from BLUE STATES. The Governor of the state has the ability to set speed limits for ALL roads in their states. No new laws to be passed, and there is nothing President Trump can do to stop it.

In fact, in 1973, the three Republican governors of Washngton (Evans), Oregon (McCall), and California (Reagan) imposed the 55 MPH limit overnight!! I remember driving from Vancouver, Canada to Berkeley, CA a few days after the speed limit was imposed. Easy to do.

Since "global climate change" is now "settled science. Every Democrat running for President and all their Governors support climate change it looks like an additional $4/gallon gas tax or 55 MPH.

Like to hear people's comments on which you prefer and why. Accept as a given that it is taxes or 55 MPH. This thread is not about the validity of global warming...thanks.
Welcome back to the future!

Good old Jimmy Carter tried to lower the speed limit back in the 1970's and it was an unmitigated disaster.

As to gas and/or carbon taxes, many people assume the entire world will go along, but rest assured developing economic countries will expect the USA to do as they want, but not as they will do in practice.

Most presidents are not in control of rising gas prices. They can talk a good game, but in the end many fscgors outside of their control make the market price of crude and other oil products.
Heck even Obama who actively promoted and said energy prices needed to be excessively high to curb demand didn't have the ability to make a big difference.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma1gwZYw1cY

Lucky for him he could not, as he would not have had a 2nd term.


`
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:41 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere
9,331 posts, read 4,248,847 times
Reputation: 7904
Why tax the consumer? Why not force auto manufacturers to make higher MPG cars like what Obama had in place? Also, America could invest in public transit and more sustainable urban development. However, that would go against what the baby boomers view as the American Dream (TM) i.e. a house in suburbia, at the end of a cul-de-sac, with a white picket fence and two cars in the garage.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Iowa
2,797 posts, read 3,093,975 times
Reputation: 3438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
The 55 mph speed limit was an abomination brought to us by the worst President ever until Obama deposed him as the worst.
Foolish mortal, you dare to compare the magnificent power, wisdom and high authority of Richard Nixon to Barack Obama? Are you aware of why the 55MPH speed limit came about? Such as being 70% dependent on foreign oil, and having Saudi Arabia impose an oil embargo on us, for our support of Israel in the 1973 war? We had gasoline shortages and lines at the gas pumps, we were at the mercy of OPEC and something had to be done. Richard the Great figured out how to get a piece of all that oil sold by OPEC, figured out how to make the military pay for itself via military protection for key oil producing countries. Figured out how to create a world wide demand for the dollar and make it the world's reserve currency. By getting OPEC countries to agree to sell oil in US dollars, this little chickadee became the goose that laid the golden egg within 5 years of implementation. The petrodollar system to date, has netted us 20 trillion dollars and counting, more than double the current face value of all the gold ever mined, allowing a vast military buildup and the ability to fund wars like Iraq, and remove uncooperative dictators like Saddam who dare to abandon the petrodollar system, which was restored after his removal. Allowing us to weather economic depressions which otherwise would have been crushing decade long events leaving the world in utter poverty. In America, we eat, sleep and breath for the sake of Richard Nixon, his knowledge of international affairs combined with his tenacity in negotiation, made him the only president qualified to rule the world, if such a position were available.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:03 PM
 
19 posts, read 3,933 times
Reputation: 31
How about no speed limit and the government stop tampering with fuel prices?
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