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Old 08-02-2019, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Long Island
33,565 posts, read 14,144,668 times
Reputation: 7190

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
There isn't a whole lot of jobs that have returned but they aren't losing them at an enormous rate like they were under Obama or would have under Clinton. Obama had 8 years to help destroy those jobs, it's not something that can be fixed overnight.
Why do you say that, seems inevitable to me even without the new clean air standards they were on a downward spiral for many reasons. Obama's new regulations never even went into effect and were rolled by Trump's EPA. Don't tell me that the new EPA regulations allowing them to dump coal residue in streams made a difference.


They need to change just like the rust belt, selling false hope only makes a bad situation worse.
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:33 PM
Status: "45 is a Puppet" (set 21 days ago)
 
18,395 posts, read 11,261,018 times
Reputation: 9669
Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
Your hate for blue collar workers and rural people today in this and other threads is beyond disgusting.Some of your electric is still coal powered as we advance to new sources.Those men with black lung raised you in comfort grasshopper when it was all that was available.So save the hate and show some compassion to those you at one time depended on.
Hardly any of my electric is coal, it's mostly hydro with natural gas behind that.
https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WA

We have catered to coal miners to a ridiculous degree, even giving them free federally funded retraining, which they refused. There's less than 50,000 coal miners in this country but all we hear about is the coal miners and the farmers (less than 2% and getting billions). In 1990, there were over 130,000 travel agents.

Here's an article pointing out that Arby's had more employees than the entire coal industry and that was two and a half years ago.

"Trump was announcing the rollback of several Obama-era environmental regulations that would have affected industries such as coal mining. Trump has repeatedly claimed that over-regulation has led to a decline in coal-industry jobs.

“I made them this promise,” Trump said at the signing. “We will put our miners back to work.”

Experts in the industry have already pointed out, repeatedly, that the coal jobs are extremely unlikely to come back. The plight of the coal industry is more a function of changing energy markets and increased demand for natural gas than anything else."


The entire coal industry employs fewer people than Arby’s
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d5995ce6ab03
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:35 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
5,946 posts, read 2,860,769 times
Reputation: 2211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Clinton outlined a program to invest billions in coal mining areas to retrain workers, clean up the mess, and entice 21st century business to the area. They decided Trump had the best plan I guess. Elections have consequences.
It was impossible for Trump to bring back the coal jobs. Natural gas has become cheaper than coal and the markets are switching to natural gas. And businesses are no longer investing in coal, instead they are investing in natural gas and clean energy.
https://time.com/4570070/donald-trump-coal-jobs/

The only thing Trumps policies will do is kill more coal miners. Trumps coal policy is deregulation that allows more mining pollution and weaker coal miner safety rules.
https://truthout.org/articles/trump-...l-more-miners/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ute-waterways/


The coal mining corporations and CEO's gave massive amounts of campaign money to Trump, and the coal mining CEO's even gave Trump a list of the deregulation they wanted done (and Trump has done most of the things on that list.)
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-fund...-2071b0b73ef5/
Trump intervenes in support of coal plant owned by major donor | MSNBC
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...-1-year-later/

Trump scammed voters and lied about bringing coal jobs back, the coal states lost Clinton's massive investment, then Trump abolished coal regulations and killed coal miners (but unforchantly today's republicans could care less.)
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:35 PM
 
312 posts, read 52,109 times
Reputation: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustbelt10 View Post
They can move to where they have jobs. I have zero sympathy for people that won't do a thing to help themselves. They just stick their hand out and expect taxpayers to fill it.

It's kind of difficult to pick up and move if your entire "fortune" is tied up in a piece of land that no one will buy. These people have lived on their land for generations.
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:46 PM
Status: "45 is a Puppet" (set 21 days ago)
 
18,395 posts, read 11,261,018 times
Reputation: 9669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annandale_Man View Post
It's kind of difficult to pick up and move if your entire "fortune" is tied up in a piece of land that no one will buy. These people have lived on their land for generations.
So why haven't they demanded a college or training that would attract companies? Being offered federally funded retraining and refusing is not the way to change the path of the community one lives in. The whole "the college educated are elitist" rhetoric is self-defeating. Why would a manufacturing company, such as automobiles, move there if all the people say all they want to do is be coal miners?
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:57 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,211 posts, read 6,509,048 times
Reputation: 4968
Hey seacove you still use some coal other than that you did not address my post of your hate for old coal minors and rural people.Arbys employees mean nothing to me as we don't have one around here,or any trash chain for that matter.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:22 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
1,434 posts, read 1,414,143 times
Reputation: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustbelt10 View Post
Hillary Clinton tried to tell them the truth and they wouldn't listen. The only strategy is for them to accept the taxpayer funded retraining programs that have been created and maybe even move (gasp!!!!) to where the jobs are.
This.

Hillary Clinton is only the latest over the last FORTY years to tell these people the truth. Appalachian coal has been a dying proposition for many years. Economically western coal still makes more sense but is still an environmental disaster.

It is hard to feel sympathy for three generations of people who refuse to see the reality of the situation. Part of the American spirit has always been the willingness to pick up and move in order to better themselves. Did the farmers in the Dustbowl just roll over and quit trying to better their situation? Did America quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

People need to stop believing politicians like Trump lying about coal and heavy raw material manufacturing coming back like it was from the industrial revolution until the early sixties. It is flat not going to happen on scale that will make a difference for people not willing to retrain and relocate.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:24 PM
 
46,257 posts, read 18,302,407 times
Reputation: 19297
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrow1 View Post
This.

Hillary Clinton is only the latest over the last FORTY years to tell these people the truth. Appalachian coal has been a dying proposition for many years.....

Wait. Coal Production is Up. Coal Employment is Up.


It destroys the narrative of this topic.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:26 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
1,434 posts, read 1,414,143 times
Reputation: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annandale_Man View Post
It's kind of difficult to pick up and move if your entire "fortune" is tied up in a piece of land that no one will buy. These people have lived on their land for generations.
My state is full of descendants of people who lost their land and fortune during the depression.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:30 PM
 
6,937 posts, read 3,861,053 times
Reputation: 14177
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
Coal miners laid off & protesting back pay are calling for Trump to show his face. (their words not mine).

What do these guys do? Where do they go? And it seems that the state Labor folks may have not demanded the payroll bond to protect the wages of these guys.

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...in/1879761001/

Coal is in trouble. it just is. There needs to be a different strategy for these folks. I don't know what it is right now but it isn't in coal.
They're just now losing faith in the false promises for coal mining coming back? Geez...someone needs to sit these men down and explain the world to them. Coal mining is on the way out. It's a long goodbye, so it's not ending tomorrow. But it's on the way out, not up.

And not just because of the environment, although that's a good enough reason in itself. But the types of furnaces that use it, trains, other equipment...they have progressed and don't use coal, any more.

If I were them (years ago), I would have lobbied the governors and state politicians to do whatever they had to do to attract other businesses to the area. Computer or tech businesses, entertainment business, offices and headquarters, retail hubs, whatever. That's the future for that area, I would think.

Since that didn't happen, some will have to leave the area for work elsewhere. Millions do it every year. I did it years ago. Sometimes it's necessary.
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