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Old 08-02-2019, 06:31 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,485 posts, read 2,172,983 times
Reputation: 2253

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Wait. Coal Production is Up. Coal Employment is Up.


It destroys the narrative of this topic.
I'm still waiting for who said they wanted coal miners to lose their jobs.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Long Island
33,461 posts, read 14,101,615 times
Reputation: 7165
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Wait. Coal Production is Up. Coal Employment is Up.


It destroys the narrative of this topic.
Well then the coal mines aren't closing and the protest was made up.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:36 PM
 
38,610 posts, read 15,132,211 times
Reputation: 24981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annandale_Man View Post
It's kind of difficult to pick up and move if your entire "fortune" is tied up in a piece of land that no one will buy. These people have lived on their land for generations.
It would be tough, no doubt about it.

But these are tough people. They trade their lungs and their lives to make a living.

Hard to figure out why they don't have the strength to move to where they can get a job.

People left behind families and homes to cross the ocean in ships looking for a better life. Others crossed the continent, walking alongside a covered wagon. People from the south moved north. Living in Chicago was no picnic.

We're a nation of people who have packed up and traveled on in search of a better life.

So what's with these coal miners sitting on their duffs, believing lies, whining about environmental regulations that keep their water clean, whining about labor laws that protect them?
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:37 PM
 
6,898 posts, read 3,842,359 times
Reputation: 14066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annandale_Man View Post
It's kind of difficult to pick up and move if your entire "fortune" is tied up in a piece of land that no one will buy. These people have lived on their land for generations.
It is hard to do that. But some don't own land and are young enough to start over somewhere else.

Others who have a house and land, that's tough. If it's just land, they can leave anyway...they'll still own the land. Try to sell it from a distance. It could take years, but what else can they do?

The coal miners have been told for years that coal mining is on the way out. So they have had warning.

I grew up in a union town w/industries. When one lays off big, it affects the area tremendously. They aren't qualified to do much else, and there aren't enough jobs for that many, anyway. Yet, they stay here and work somewhere where they know they could get into that predicament. That's because their family is here, their friends are here, it's familiar, not a lot of people move away, and the pay and benefits are good at the plant. BUT...reality may come home to roost sooner or later. They really know the devastation that that could cause to them, and they have taken the risk. So...they knew all along, if they didn't want to face it.

They COULD have lobbied their politicians to get different businesses in the area, so there would be something else to do for a living.

The world progresses. It can't be stopped. You don't throw out all the computers to go back to typewriters. Time marches on. The states are in the best position to deal with business problems in their states.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:40 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
1,433 posts, read 1,410,046 times
Reputation: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Wait. Coal Production is Up. Coal Employment is Up.


It destroys the narrative of this topic.
Don't get lost in a tiny fluctuation upward due the federal government goosing the market. The long term projection graphs for both production and employment are down, down and down big.



https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/im....26/chart2.png

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=28732
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:40 PM
 
6,898 posts, read 3,842,359 times
Reputation: 14066
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
It would be tough, no doubt about it.

But these are tough people. They trade their lungs and their lives to make a living.

Hard to figure out why they don't have the strength to move to where they can get a job.

People left behind families and homes, to cross the ocean in ships looking for a better life. Others crossed the continent, walking alongside a covered wagon. People from the south moved north. Living in Chicago as no picnic.

We're a nation of people who have packed up and traveled on in search of a better life.

So what's with these coal miners sitting on their duffs, believing lies, whining about environmental regulations that keep their water clean, whining about labor laws that protect them?
And I left the deep south, where I was born and raised, to move to Dallas, TX, pregnant and poor, pulling a Uhaul with my few possessions and a few bucks. I had to have a decent paying job...I had found one in Dallas.

We do what is necessary, as long as its legal.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:47 PM
 
38,610 posts, read 15,132,211 times
Reputation: 24981
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
And I left the deep south, where I was born and raised, to move to Dallas, TX, pregnant and poor, pulling a Uhaul with my few possessions and a few bucks. I had to have a decent paying job...I had found one in Dallas.

We do what is necessary, as long as its legal.
Bingo.

It is not easy to leave behind friends and family. But tears won't change the fact that you needed a decent paying job.

So do the coal miners.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:53 PM
 
11,402 posts, read 7,400,554 times
Reputation: 4596
The USA and China will continue to retire coal fired power plants. Coal’s days are numbered.
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:44 PM
 
15,838 posts, read 4,189,105 times
Reputation: 11301
Much of the coal land wasn't owned by the miners anyway - the coal and timber and gas companies own everything above and below the ground and they used and abused that land for generations.

The coal thing was over decades ago. When I lived in WV in the 1970's all the young people were leaving. It's amazing that people, even today, think that coal mining is a driver of economics.....of any size that would move any needle.

Sure, as Henry Ford would have said "ask the customers and they would have wanted a faster horse".....so you can read individual stories, etc. but that fact is we (the USA) could easily afford to train, pay and move (or NOT move, in many cases) all these "coal miners" (like all 6,000 of them....in KY) and we wouldn't notice a rounding error.

That's probably why Hillary planned to do just that - retraining and development of alternative economics. But, no, those people - led on by lies and propaganda - believed that they wanted more injuries, death and suffering...and no jobs.

Hey, you can lead that horse to water....but even horses aren't likely to drink poisoned water.
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:52 PM
 
15,838 posts, read 4,189,105 times
Reputation: 11301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
It is hard to do that. But some don't own land and are young enough to start over somewhere else.

The world progresses. It can't be stopped. You don't throw out all the computers to go back to typewriters. Time marches on. The states are in the best position to deal with business problems in their states.
So many lost typing pool jobs! 100's of thousands of them....

Up near here we lost billions of dollars because, even after typewriters, we had vast industries in the newfangled "word processors". Wang, DEC and others....massive economic boost.

Why don't we, in MA., cry about the loss of 140,000 Digital Equipment Corporation jobs or 50,000 Wang WP jobs? Those were high paying, lifetime jobs with pensions and benefits.

Answer: Progressive people move on.

There are definitely some depressed areas (towns or part of towns) from those job losses, but all in all the state and the people have adjusted to those and MILLIONS of other job losses. We had massive GE Plants, Car assembly plants and the like...right up until the 1980's or so.

Yet today MA. since has the highest (or close) GDP per person in the USA.

The real answer is that many of those places NEVER established diverse economies and never owned any of the "stuff". They were virtually enslaved by the Robber Barons (Wall Street and London, etc.) and used....

But do we blame that on the "free men" who stayed there and didn't see what was happening? Or do we blame it on the "Free Market" that did it to them?

Both....probably...are involved.
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