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View Poll Results: Do you prefer Obama-like positions or AOC-like positions?
Obama / Moderates 22 53.66%
AOC / Progressives 12 29.27%
I'm a Republican that just wants to vote 7 17.07%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Today, 04:02 AM
 
3,296 posts, read 1,724,791 times
Reputation: 5302

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They both suck! That is all. Carry on!
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Old Today, 06:14 AM
 
Location: USA
18,415 posts, read 9,059,727 times
Reputation: 13829
Obama was NO moderate.

Obamacare - huge failure, and government over reach
"You can keep your doctor, period!"
"You can keep your healthcare plan, period!"
"Your healthcare costs will go down"
"You didn't build that!"
"Trayvon could have looked like by son!"
LGBT "Rainbow Flag" lights up White House
America is not exceptional!
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Old Today, 06:18 AM
 
11,431 posts, read 7,382,963 times
Reputation: 4558
Obama was a liberal republican. I lean more towards Obama than AOC, but I like Alexandria too.
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Old Today, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
3,039 posts, read 1,667,240 times
Reputation: 3575
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMESMH View Post
I don't like Trump either, but he provides enough truthful fodder overall without having to mislead people. The bolded is chronologically impossible. All of Trump's deferments and reclassifications re military service were between 1964 and 1972, the Vietnam War ended in 1975, and construction on Trump Tower (where his Manhattan penthouse is located) didn't start until 1979 and wasn't completed until 1983.
I never said he was living in Trump Tower at the time. He did have residences in Manhattan prior to completion of Trump tower. Granted I can't say for sure if they were all penthouses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reside...ttan_penthouse
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Old Today, 08:40 AM
 
13,003 posts, read 4,702,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
I am a lifelong Democrat (generally moderate). Obama is the first Democrat since FDR to win the Presidency two times consecutively with 50% or more of the popular vote.

I have no idea what these candidates are smoking. Glad to see some of the moderates finally speak up in the last two debates.


This is an excerpt from a short piece by Elaine Kamarck at the Brookings Institution on this topic:

The Democratic Party is, as it has been for many decades now, a center-left party and not a left-wing party in the style of European political parties. In the first Democratic debates in June, many of the candidates fell blindly into far-left ideological traps, causing panic among Democrats concerned about beating Trump.

As the following table (updated from a paper published with my colleague William A. Galston in 2011) shows, there is no possibility of a purely liberal or purely conservative governing coalition: “To win, each party needs to form a coalition with moderate voters. But the structure of those coalitions is very different.”

Although the number of self-identified liberals has increased in recent presidential elections, they are still out-numbered by self-identified conservatives. Playing only base politics is a dangerous game.

While neither party can write off moderate voters, Democrats need them more than Republicans do. Table 2 shows that in the years when Democrats have won the presidency, they’ve done so by winning more than 55% of the moderate vote.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgo...tfrombrookings
But be specific, which policies are "far left" and what is "moderate"? Was FDR a "far left" politician because he believed in not only healthcare as a human right, but housing, education and employment as well?

Is really healthcare as a human right a "far left" position"? Notice all the candidates on stage who do not support it have amassed huge amounts of donations from the insurance and pharma industry...Is that moderate?
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Old Today, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
3,039 posts, read 1,667,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
But be specific, which policies are "far left" and what is "moderate"?

Is really healthcare as a human right a "far left" position"? Notice all the candidates that do not support it have amassed huge amounts of donations from the insurance and pharma industry...Is that moderate?
That is a bit of chicken and the egg debate. Of course the insurance and pharma industry are going to give to candidates that want to keep private insurance. That doesn't mean all the candidates "on the take" are in their back pockets.

But I'll be the first to critique our campaign finance system. Needs major reform but the conservative courts have clipped those efforts since the Citizens United decision. Trump is only stacking the courts with more conservative judges. All the more reason to defeat him.

I absolutely agree we need to have universal coverage and that it should be meaningful coverage that delivers real health care to all. But you can have both universal coverage and still have a private health insurance system. Switzerland does it.

If you put a gun to my head and my only choice was single payer or keeping our current system forever, I'd take single payer. But that is a false dichotomy.

From a pure policy perspective, IF it were up to me I think we should try something along the lines of the Wyden-Bennett “Healthy Americans Act” (HAA) which was proposed 10 years ago when the ACA was moving through Congress. The HAA had liberal support and some moderate Republican support.

In essence, the HAA would create a centrally financed, publicly regulated private market in health insurance. Every American would get a health voucher to purchase a plan of their choice. Public standards would ensure that all Americans enjoy coverage at least equal to what members of Congress enjoy.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/t...ughing-matter/

The moderates in the last debates made some important and practical political points on health care. Tim Ryan very correctly pointed out that many unions have hard won "cadilac" health plans.

Many unions balance solid health care benefits against less aggressive wage increases. Running on a platform that would phase out those plans won't necessarily play well in high union density states...like the fractured blue wall states where every vote is going to count.
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Old Today, 09:16 AM
 
5,282 posts, read 1,311,602 times
Reputation: 4097
I find it interesting that Obama is now considered a moderate. I think he was responsible for the radical shift to the left in the party. More seats were lost under him nationwide than probably anytime in history because of his radical agenda. Funny that now he is out of favor with the party. I personally love seeing liberals eat their own.
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Old Today, 09:17 AM
 
Location: US
18,053 posts, read 17,950,832 times
Reputation: 14051
It shows how crazy Democrat politicians have become... reminds me of the Tea Party, except the Tea Party was a small part... now I'd say 90% of the candidates think Obama is a Republican.
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Old Today, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,418 posts, read 19,408,514 times
Reputation: 21023
Lightbulb Do you prefer Obama-like positions or AOC-like positions?

I'll take a little of his and a little of hers.

For a good mix.

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Old Today, 09:29 AM
 
5,604 posts, read 2,063,111 times
Reputation: 7102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
I am a lifelong Democrat (generally moderate). Obama is the first Democrat since FDR to win the Presidency two times consecutively with 50% or more of the popular vote. I have no idea what these candidates are smoking. Glad to see some of the moderates finally speak up in the last two debates.
What's the point of electing moderate Democrats if all they do is perpetuate the status quo? Look at Biden's healthcare plan: a $750 bil band-aid on Obamacare. All that does is tinker around the edges. You'll continue to have millions of people with crappy insurance, like $8,000 max out of pocket insurance with high copays, that forces people to choose between healthcare and bankruptcy.

The only thing Joe Biden offers is four years of Not Trump. That's it. No meaningful progress on any major issues.
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