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Old 08-05-2019, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Central Illinois -
22,296 posts, read 14,753,414 times
Reputation: 15468

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker View Post
I wouldn't bet on that. Of course it would all depend on what those laws are and whether they would be effective or not? Banning and criminalizing one's lawful activities and possessions because of the actions that are committed by others is not one of them.

There are already thousands of gun laws already on the books that address both the criminal and negligent mis-use of firearms. Along with thousands of laws that address every conceivable criminal act imaginable. Not one of them has prevented someone that is on a suicide mission to kill as many people as possible.

If you can think of one that will, I'll be willing to listen.
Red Flag laws, for starters. This has to be federal legislation, however, to be effective.

 
Old 08-05-2019, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Up North
4,972 posts, read 1,282,209 times
Reputation: 2925
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I never expected our nation, a nation built on immigrants from other countries, would separate children from families and put them in cages to deal with a massive humanitarian crisis south of the border. If that can happen, then anything is possible.
Traditionally, America has always been the place that displaced, oppressed refugees always flee to when they live south of the border. Historically it has always been so, since our formation.
If we don't want to accept them any more, then change the law, don't just suddenly, arbitrarily separate families and pack them into cages built for 100 that are now crammed with 500.
Oh. So you agree with me...the government can not and should not be trusted.

Good.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Caribou, Me.
5,722 posts, read 4,081,852 times
Reputation: 4267
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanonka View Post
Well, no.
Here are some facts:

"The Nazi government took the stance that enterprises should be in private hands wherever possible.[43] State ownership was to be avoided unless it was absolutely necessary for rearmament or the war effort, and even in those cases “the Reich often insisted on the inclusion in the contract of an option clause according to which the private firm operating the plant was entitled to purchase it.”[44] Companies privatized by the Nazis included the four major commercial banks in Germany, which had all come under public ownership during the prior years: Commerz– und Privatbank , Deutsche Bank und Disconto-Gesellschaft , Golddiskontbank and Dresdner Bank . [45][46] Also privatized were the Deutsche Reichsbahn (German Railways), at the time the largest single public enterprise in the world, the Vereinigte Stahlwerke A.G. (United Steelworks), the second largest joint-stock company in Germany (the largest was IG Farben) and Vereinigte Oberschlesische Hüttenwerke AG , a company controlling all of the metal production in the Upper Silesian coal and steel industry. The government also sold a number of shipbuilding companies, and enhanced private utilities at the expense of municipally owned utilities companies.[47] Additionally, the Nazis privatized some public services which had been previously provided by the government, especially social and labor-related services, and these were mainly taken over by organizations affiliated with the Nazi Party that could be trusted to apply Nazi racial policies.[48]"

Filtering to whom privatize business does not mean to own it, or to own any business that was not originally public.
Your own post (unidentified as it is) states how any company that wanted to get ahead had to show allegiance to the Nazis and Nazi ideology. Nazi offices and officers were even assigned to most big companies......Schindler, any one??
Stop trying to portray the Nazis as bastions of capitalism. They were rank socialists of the hardcore kind. (BTW, why are all these German companies apologizing lately??.......)
 
Old 08-05-2019, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,683 posts, read 10,499,166 times
Reputation: 8172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I never expected our nation, a nation built on immigrants from other countries, would separate children from families and put them in cages to deal with a massive humanitarian crisis south of the border. If that can happen, then anything is possible.
Traditionally, America has always been the place that displaced, oppressed refugees always flee to when they live south of the border. Historically it has always been so, since our formation.
If we don't want to accept them any more, then change the law, don't just suddenly, arbitrarily separate families and pack them into cages built for 100 that are now crammed with 500.
When we created social services and entitlements, it was necessary to limit economic migrants in order to keep from bankrupting the system. Most of these people are not “displaced, oppressed refugees”. Most of them are economic migrants. That is why most of the ones that don’t disappear into the woodwork, and actually show up for their court date, end up not qualifying.

As to the cages, send me a link to your post complaining about the cages when Obama was putting the kids there. Then we can talk.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 12:48 PM
 
3,449 posts, read 1,972,151 times
Reputation: 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
So you're argument against responsible gun ownership by purchasing insurance is the good old "Slippery slope" argument. The "what if scenario" is always a good fallback tactic when no other explanation will do.

Yes you could get an 80% AR receiver made out of plastic for 49.00 on line. The rest of the parts can be purchased for under 125.00 pretty much anywhere on line from reputable dealers. One search on you tube and you can build it in an hour flat.
You can also purchase a complete AR15 for 389.00 from any number of on line dealers. Bet for a person never convicted with a good driving record and a clean history could purchase liability insurance for less than 200.00 a year.
Guy could have a Ruger 10/22, a 9mm with a trigger lock and an Ar15 with a locked cabinet and probably get insurance for less than 200.00 a year for the whole shebang if he was a good, honest, citizen with a good history.
I have to ask you an honest question: Are you an insurance salesman? Or in any way associated with that industry? No offense, but it sure sounds like it.

I never mentioned anything about a "slippery slope" only that forcing someone to pay for an insurance policy in order to exercise a Constitutional Right would indeed be an infringement. You fail to mention why we shouldn't as well, have to purchase liability insurance for just about every other object/substance that could be used either intentionally or accidentally to harm or kill others. Why is it just about guns?

The NICS system's purpose is to determine who is a good, honest, citizen with a good history. As that was supposed to be it's intended purpose. Right? If that's the case then we don't need another layer of bureaucracy in the name of some insurance company to be the final arbiter as to who can lawfully own a gun or not. Insurance company's do not set public policy. That's why we have a legislature who's job it is to legislate within the boundaries of Constitutional law.

You still did not address this:
Quote:
NRA's Carry Guard comes under fire as "murder insurance ...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nras-ca...der-insurance/
NRA's Carry Guard comes under fire as "murder insurance". Carry Guard insurance was launched this past spring by the NRA. Rates range from $13.95 a month for up to $250,000 in civil protection and $50,000 in criminal defense to a "gold plus" policy that costs $49.95 a month and provides up to $1.5 million in civil protection and $250,000 in criminal defense.

The National Rifle Association wants to financially cover gun owners who shoot another person, but some critics are asking if the new product is essentially "murder insurance."

Gun-control advocates say the new insurance product could foster more violence and give gun owners a false sense of security to shoot first and ask questions later.
Some are dubbing it "murder insurance," and say that rather than promoting personal responsibility and protection, it encourages gun owners to take action and not worry about the consequences. And, they say, it's being marketed in a way that feeds on the nation's racial divisions.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 12:55 PM
 
390 posts, read 75,497 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888 View Post
Your own post (unidentified as it is) states how any company that wanted to get ahead had to show allegiance to the Nazis and Nazi ideology. Nazi offices and officers were even assigned to most big companies......Schindler, any one??
Stop trying to portray the Nazis as bastions of capitalism. They were rank socialists of the hardcore kind. (BTW, why are all these German companies apologizing lately??.......)
*Shrug* I cannot change historical facts. If Nazi were a "bastions of capitalism" as you put it, then they were. No wishful thinking can change that. Yes, there are always some conditions for a business to operate in a state; main of them - abide local laws and customs. If new "customs" say that business owner should share Nazi ideology - well, that was cost of doing business at those times. But it still was a business, with all properties of capitalism. Nothing socialist there.

So you better understand: Google is doing business in China, abiding Chinese laws. Does it make it "communist"? Following your logic, it does, since a) Chinese system calls itself "communist" and b) Google is doing business there. Do you see the problem with your arguments?

Another example: US govt is limiting list of companies that can be sold to foreigners. Does it make those companies "state owned"?

In case you interested where the quote came from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

P.S. But we went pretty far from the thread topic...

Last edited by kanonka; 08-05-2019 at 01:43 PM..
 
Old 08-05-2019, 01:01 PM
 
3,449 posts, read 1,972,151 times
Reputation: 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Red Flag laws, for starters. This has to be federal legislation, however, to be effective.
I believe that was the intended purpose of the NICS instant background check system? Who's fault is it if the proper authorities don't enter those who are already prohibited by law from owning a firearm into the system?

If the "Red Flag Laws" don't violate an individuals due process rights under the 14th Amendment I'm all for them. If they're used arbitrarily for any reason whatsoever then hell no. Anyone can accuse anybody of anything whether real or imagined. Or just out of a personal grudge or not agreeing with one's political opinions.

Quote:
Fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution -- Rights ...
https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-14/
Fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution -- Rights Guaranteed: Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship, Due Process, and Equal Protection. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 01:06 PM
 
3,449 posts, read 1,972,151 times
Reputation: 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
When we created social services and entitlements, it was necessary to limit economic migrants in order to keep from bankrupting the system. Most of these people are not “displaced, oppressed refugees”. Most of them are economic migrants. That is why most of the ones that don’t disappear into the woodwork, and actually show up for their court date, end up not qualifying.

As to the cages, send me a link to your post complaining about the cages when Obama was putting the kids there. Then we can talk.
That was a great response!
 
Old 08-05-2019, 01:08 PM
 
28,312 posts, read 19,724,899 times
Reputation: 15099
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I never expected our nation, a nation built on immigrants from other countries, would separate children from families and put them in cages to deal with a massive humanitarian crisis south of the border. If that can happen, then anything is possible.
where were your crocodile tears during the 0bama years? why weren't you calling them 'cages' then?

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...213525764.html
 
Old 08-05-2019, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,241 posts, read 7,966,166 times
Reputation: 7079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker View Post
I have to ask you an honest question: Are you an insurance salesman? Or in any way associated with that industry? No offense, but it sure sounds like it.

I never mentioned anything about a "slippery slope" only that forcing someone to pay for an insurance policy in order to exercise a Constitutional Right would indeed be an infringement. You fail to mention why we shouldn't as well, have to purchase liability insurance for just about every other object/substance that could be used either intentionally or accidentally to harm or kill others. Why is it just about guns?

The NICS system's purpose is to determine who is a good, honest, citizen with a good history. As that was supposed to be it's intended purpose. Right? If that's the case then we don't need another layer of bureaucracy in the name of some insurance company to be the final arbiter as to who can lawfully own a gun or not. Insurance company's do not set public policy. That's why we have a legislature who's job it is to legislate within the boundaries of Constitutional law.

You still did not address this:
I'm a retired 76 year old white male of American Indian Mother and Lithuanian father. I was born on the res and grew up there. I retired from the military as E-7 and did 4 combat tours in Vietnam. My last duty assignment before being discharged was as a gunnery instructor at Damneck, Va. the place where they currently train all the seals. I was never a seal, as they did not exist when I served.

I have never sold insurance in my life and early on in life you had to drag me kicking and screaming to the insurance agent to purchase the minimum required by law.

I spend a lot of time at the range. I've met many individuals who are idiots when it comes to safe gun handling and responsible firearm ownership. I have lost count years ago, how many times I've packed up my gear and left, just because a pack of drunken idiots just pulled up next to me with a load of guns, a case of empty glass bottles and an old TV they were going to shoot up and leave all over our range. I get used bowling pins from the local alley and keep a case in my trunk and whenever a group brings glass to the range to shoot, I offer to give them the bowling pins if they'll let me have their glass in exchange. There are more desert ranges that have been shut down in our area of Arizona by the park service than I can count because of irresponsible shooters who leave the place a mess with all the old crap they want to get rid of in their house.

This is why I feel it's time to institute some more responsible gun ownership laws on a federal level. It's based on experience of too many ass holes who have guns and don't know how to use them.

Last edited by mohawkx; 08-05-2019 at 01:24 PM..
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