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Old 08-03-2019, 03:31 PM
11,890 posts, read 4,362,626 times
Reputation: 5630


Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The latest information is that 22 people were shot. Of those 22, Vista Del Sol which is close to where I live received 11 of them. Of those 11, two are in stable condition and nine are in critical condition.

Video was just released of the shooter being put in back of a police car.
I do not understand what goes on in these people's heads. They do this and then what comes next is life in prison, or perhaps the death penalty. It makes no sense at all. None.

Old 08-03-2019, 03:31 PM
20,812 posts, read 11,632,369 times
Reputation: 20988
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Most people that carry firearms carry them concealed and there is lot more of them than you think. Personally I think someone engaging in open carry as a general idea is stupidity, don't take that as being opposed to it being legal. I'm not interested in advertising to someone who intends to harm myself or someone else in my vicinity that I'm armed.
I agree, as do every combat-experienced gunfighter I've heard from.

Some people believe open carry deters a criminal.

However, the fact is that if the criminal even notes you're carrying (most seem just to burst into a place intending to control the situation through shock and awe), he's the one who makes the decision of what to do about you and your weapon...without you even knowing.

He may be deterred. Or he may decide to take you out first. But you don't know. Or he might not even notice you're armed, but when he makes his move, it's the guy behind you who yells out, "You've got a gun! Do something!"

Again, someone else is making decisions about your weapon.

I'd rather be an unknown quantity, attracting no more notice than anyone else. I have no obligation to be the white knight. Most likely, I'm there with my wife, and my primary obligation is to get her out safely. I don't want anyone making decisions about my weapon except me.
Old 08-03-2019, 03:34 PM
999 posts, read 1,093,720 times
Reputation: 1852
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Untreated mental illness is definitely a problem in this country. We can't force anyone to take meds. We don't have all of those asylums anymore. Reagan did good things, but this is one of those things that he did that I think was about the dumbest thing he ever did.

Now look at what we have. Mentally ill people all over the place - some get help, a lot do not. Some find out that they have one, but refuse any medication.

So what's the answer?

Banning guns isn't going to stop mental illness, nor will it stop mass killings. You don't need a gun to kill a large number of people.

So, again - instead of blaming the president, congress, guns, etc, when are people going to realize that we have a major mental illness problem in this country.

Did we have this much mental illness in the past? Has anyone looked that up? Was it that they were being medicated and/or in asylums, and that is why we didn't have these mass shootings as often?

People used to carry guns to school - as in high school - in their cars, trucks, on them. It was allowed, no one blinked an eye. And all of those people who carried them didn't shoot up their schools.

In this day, millions of Americans own guns. Some of them carry on them at all times. None of them shoot up a whole bunch of people, or even anyone. Not even those who would have the right to do so in self defense.

So what happened?

We have people who do not value life in any way.

We have people who are mentally ill and not being treated, and we can't force it on them.

And a good chunk of this country doesn't want to address the elephant in the room. It's not the damn gun, it's not the president, it's not Congress, it's not "everyone else", it's the mental illness - that includes individuals, and it includes gang members. They have serious mental issues.
Even when we know they have a mental illness and are a threat to others- we cannot have them arrested- just places on a hold. Maybe given a restraining order. I cannot remember where I saw this but after one school shooting I was reading stories online that had numerous stories of people who knew their loved ones were mentally unbalanced and not taking their meds, yet they and law enforcement had no recourse. They were literally begging police and judges for help, sharing why they felt this person was threat, yet nothing could be done.

I do not know the answer. We cannot predict crime (pre-crime), but we should
Have more options when their are so many distressing signs.
Old 08-03-2019, 03:34 PM
33,514 posts, read 17,164,155 times
Reputation: 18301
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Actually, this took place in El Paso. I would expect someone to come onto this thread and talking about "we need that wall".
You're not far off.

Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
Very few details so far, but if itís multiple shooters, my guess is cartel activity.
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Which means part of the answer here is better control over our Southern border.
Old 08-03-2019, 03:34 PM
12,332 posts, read 5,901,418 times
Reputation: 7240
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
Haven't seen confirmation of it, but is manifesto is making the rounds.
I've seen the "manifesto" - it was attributed to the first names shooter (which was wrong), then called a HOAX and now it's being attributed to the real shooter (last name Crusius, which is NOT a Hispanic name) and it likely also a HOAX.

Same "manifesto", attributed to 2 different men.
Old 08-03-2019, 03:34 PM
12,780 posts, read 10,799,023 times
Reputation: 17801
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
No that is not what you meant. Only states can amend the Constitution and there is no mention of them anywhere in your original post.
If you want to get hung up on this as a distraction that's cool. I wrote down half the process, my point being that it is not up to the president, not to write some detailed analysis on how to actually change the Constitution. Seeing the original context of my post helps here because OP said Trump has done nothing, as if there is something he can do about mass shootings or current laws. There is not, that was the point. The president doesn't really have power here. Iirc people used to blame Obama, too, same goes for him.

Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The mods may not like it but personally you are more than welcome to insult me, that is usually a good indication someone is losing an argument. Slightly off topic but if I'm dense what does that say when I had to educate on how amendments work?

Firstly I was replying to someone that was discussing the intent of the Constitution, his argument is that they never intended for individuals to have the right to bear arms. My response is to make an argument otherwise.

Secondly are we going to apply what you suggest to all technologies, for example they didn't have ball point pens, typewriters, ink jet printers or the internet when the First was written. Should your rights to free speech using an assault ball point pen be infringed upon because the technology didn't exist?

Thirdly when questions like this arise it falls to the Supreme Court to make a judgement, in nearly all recent cases they have sided with the right to bear arms.

Last but not least in their infinite wisdom the authors of the Constitution have provided the means to change it. Thanks to my educating you on this topic you now know the requirements. If you want to change these laws that is the course action you will need to take.
Your second point is a ridiculous comparison and premise.

On your third point, the Supreme Court's job is to interpret and uphold the Constitution as much as it can. That doesn't mean its decisions are always right and it also doesn't mean that change can't be effected or that the Second Amendment isn't outdated or likely misinterpreted.

Fourth, to be frank, my state doesn't have much of an issue with guns or mass shootings. We don't let many people conceal carry, mostly just off duty cops. This isn't a gun nut state. Like in many states, our issues with gun crimes are pretty confined to urban areas and gang-related inner city stuff. It is not super easy to obtain a gun here and it's generally not within our culture to be very pro-gun, gun-toting and touting. It's overall a very safe state, among the safest. I am not very worried about my area, I am worried about other areas. I don't feel much change needs to be effected locally for me, I'm more exasperated with other states and how they handle things and what goes on in them. If other states don't see an issue, that really isn't my problem and they have to either deal with it or figure it out. I can just be glad I don't live in those other states, which I am.

I don't even necessarily think anything needs to happen with the Second Amendment (though it could and I wouldn't be opposed to it), I just think people need to stop quoting it in support of theirs or anyone else's rights any time a mass shooting happens and gun-loving people want to justify having guns or easy access to guns. I also think mental illness needs to be handled better and all states should do more to ensure guns aren't in the hands of dangerous and/or mentally ill people. I think it's pretty ridiculous to look at the text and intentions of the Second Amendment in the context of that time and apply it to today without considering all the change that has occurred and without asking had the founding fathers known what would happen in ~250 years, with the guns we have today and all the violence and mass shootings, whether they would have still felt the same or worded it the same. I think it's too easy of an argument to just spit out quotes from that time and I don't think doing that shows one has put much thought into the issue, or cares to. But Constitutional originalists are as they are, just like they dislike the whole Griswold line of cases and the right to privacy because the words "right to privacy" don't actually appear in the Constitution.

Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 08-03-2019 at 03:51 PM..
Old 08-03-2019, 03:35 PM
Location: Victoria, BC.
31,313 posts, read 32,194,287 times
Reputation: 12816
What is it going to take to fix this problem?

Old 08-03-2019, 03:37 PM
Location: Riding a rock floating through space
2,284 posts, read 694,133 times
Reputation: 5819
Patrick Crusius - looks like an angry incel to me, that's my best guess for his motive.
I wish they would torture this bag of vomit to death on live tv in the most horrific ways imaginable to act as a deterrent. Instead, he will get some waste of time long drawn out trial, then 3 meals a day and free healthcare for decades while he sits on death row.
I hate our justice system.
Old 08-03-2019, 03:37 PM
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
10,138 posts, read 3,091,961 times
Reputation: 7724
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Is Walmart a gun free zone?
They sell guns in Walmart, so it appears the answer is, No.
Old 08-03-2019, 03:38 PM
33,514 posts, read 17,164,155 times
Reputation: 18301
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
The problem is, the cure is worse than the disease.
If we are going to have armed guards at every school and institution then just admit we are a defacto police state
The only ones that will be punished are law abiding freedom loving citizens.
Ironic, isn't it?
- "Why are our schoolkids behind armed guards and concertina wire?"
- "Because making it harder for thecrazies to arm themselves would lead to a police state!"
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