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Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,691 posts, read 11,684,764 times
Reputation: 9208

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
In the supermarket I tend to go to, they also have two self-service lines, but the ones with human cashiers are always much longer because people don't like self-service.

Walmart etc. make huge profits, but they prefer to give them to investors that are already filthy rich instead of paying their employees decent wages.
Yes, count me as another filthy rich investor. Why the hell am I brown bagging my lunch?
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Old Yesterday, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
837 posts, read 267,081 times
Reputation: 1941
So lefties, if I am desperately in need of money, and am willing to work for less than minimum wage, you are of the opinion that I should not be allowed to do so, that it is morally superior for me to remain unemployed and broke?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Any adult working full-time, regardless of the job, deserves an income that enables them to lead a decent life without getting into debt or poverty. After all, no employer hires anyone for doing something that is not required.
No, they don't. They do not deserve any amount of someone else's money except what the two of them have mutually agreed upon. If the wages offered are too low for the employee's liking, they can turn down the job. If the employee's wage requirements are too high for the employer's liking, they may decline to offer them a job.

The only thing ANYONE deserves is the air the breathe and the physical space they occupy.
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Old Yesterday, 01:39 PM
 
3,633 posts, read 715,223 times
Reputation: 2571
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
The ignorance of liberals on economics is amazing. The best way to raise real wages of unskilled workers is to greatly reduce legal and illegal immigrant unskilled workers. Of course the party liberals tend to vote for won’t favor that.

But they are the anointed ones.
Yup. Simple law of supply-and-demand.

Liberals tend to brag about how they are so highly educated, but apparently they didn't take Econ 101.
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Old Yesterday, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,691 posts, read 11,684,764 times
Reputation: 9208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Yup. Simple law of supply-and-demand.

Liberals tend to brag about how they are so highly educated, but apparently they didn't take Econ 101.
Of course Trump conservatives missed Ricardo’s Law of Comparative Advantage. But overall they tend to be ahead of the liberals.
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Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,696 posts, read 19,420,873 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey2k View Post
So lefties, if I am desperately in need of money, and am willing to work for less than minimum wage, you are of the opinion that I should not be allowed to do so, that it is morally superior for me to remain unemployed and broke?



No, they don't. They do not deserve any amount of someone else's money except what the two of them have mutually agreed upon. If the wages offered are too low for the employee's liking, they can turn down the job. If the employee's wage requirements are too high for the employer's liking, they may decline to offer them a job.

The only thing ANYONE deserves is the air the breathe and the physical space they occupy.
I disagree. I don't even buy that whole labor market crap. Humans are not fridges or toys.

Nobody forces anyone to hire someone. But if they do hire someone - so obviously there is a need for that person's labor - they should pay them decently, instead of turning them into working poor.
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Old Yesterday, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,691 posts, read 11,684,764 times
Reputation: 9208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I disagree. I don't even buy that whole labor market crap. Humans are not fridges or toys.

Nobody forces anyone to hire someone. But if they do hire someone - so obviously there is a need for that person's labor - they should pay them decently, instead of turning them into working poor.
A good is a good. Labor or toys all follow the same law of supply and demand.
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Old Yesterday, 01:51 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,696 posts, read 19,420,873 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
A good is a good. Labor or toys all follow the same law of supply and demand.
Luckily not where I live. We have a minimum wage, we have powerful labor unions, etc.
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Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM
 
24,355 posts, read 12,060,611 times
Reputation: 10374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
T-310, many employers believe their employees are not worthy of their pay, but they don't dismiss those employees. Those employers are not altruistic.

They cannot recruit superior labor for inferior wage rates, and they have determined that it would be to their own or their enterprises' net detriments if they fired those workers.
The cleaning lady needs some time to do her job properly. Cutting her hours will consequentially push the employee to seek another employer and/or the place will not be properly cleaned.

The customers are only “right” if they're willing to pay the price for being “right”. This remains true even if the buyers are employers.
Inferior or otherwise, some businesses can’t pay those wages so they cut the hours. Economics trumps emotion.
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Old Yesterday, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,691 posts, read 11,684,764 times
Reputation: 9208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Luckily not where I live. We have a minimum wage, we have powerful labor unions, etc.
Nothing wrong with laborers uniting to advance their common good.
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Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM
 
9,161 posts, read 5,643,933 times
Reputation: 3880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
GuyNTexas, I'm absolutely correct, except when I'm not. I don't simply empathize with your objection to my arrogance, I agree with you. I despise false modesty; considering it as a form of duplicity. It would be cowardly not to “get out of the closet” and not admit to my attitude.

I have more or lesser firmness of convictions regarding some political or economic topics, but I'm unaware of my similar attitude in regard to any other of them. Almost all of my posts are to the economics forum.

The definite minimum wage rate is applicable to the least desirable employee or applicant for the least challenging job. Eliminating or permitting the purchasing power of the legally enforced minimum wage rate to be reduced is morally and economically indefensible.

My attitude, to paraphrase “the Godfather” line is, it ain't politics or economics, it's morality and personal. But enough about me, what do you really think of me.
You’re probably a nice person, given your leanings toward morality, and the desire to help the more economically challenged. Unfortunately, your idealism blinds you to the fatal flaws in your position, and how economics has no interest in, or connection to, morality or emotion. Supply and demand governs economics, and is neither moral or immoral. It just is.

I’ve explained why a proposed $15 FMW will ultimately harm the very persons its supposed to help, and provided an example showing how that will produce a very predictable outcome. Its not just an opinion, but an economic reality. Therefore, in my opinion, what is truly immoral is to ignore that reality, and place ideology and politics ahead of people and their best interests.
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