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View Poll Results: Climate change caused by humans is a real phenomenon
True 100 56.18%
False 78 43.82%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Yesterday, 04:52 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,414 posts, read 6,667,170 times
Reputation: 14579

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zortation View Post
I think that we are the chief cause of present climate change, so I totally disagree. Scientists are telling us that it is changing at the most rapid rate in history. What other factor would be contributing more than us?

I agree that it's changing at the most rapid rate known and that mankind's population explosion, pollutions, alterations and destructions are the contributors that have caused that rapid change. But I do not agree that mankind has caused the present climate change, which is what your poll is about. It's not possible for mankind to cause it, it can only contribute to it.

Climate change already existed and has changed from one extreme to another over and over again since long before mankind came into existence, it's always been an ongoing, ceaseless thing since the beginning of Earth's existence, It's never stopped so we cannot possibly be the cause of something ceaseless that has existed and been ongoing since before we existed.

But yes, mankind's over-population, alterations and pollutions has definitely caused the rapidity of the extreme changes that are happening this time around and we have done so in a very, very short period of time, just since industrialization and then the population explosion that started 150 years ago. I don't know how any intelligent people could not recognize that except that any people who don't recognize it are simpletons.

.
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Old Yesterday, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
403 posts, read 566,524 times
Reputation: 189
Yeah, itís real, but climate activists have failed to get me all that interested in it.
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Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle
1,013 posts, read 220,740 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Scientists don't do policy, politicians do. So separate out policy from the problem. The important thing is to recognize there is a problem so that we can stop arguing whether CC is real and figure out the best way to solve it. Solutions will be trade offs as they always are. Nobody wants to pay for it, basically. So politicians figure out what is palatable for most people and push that. But the reality is we will all pay something.
I stopped putting my faith in politicians some time back; the Republican party have just grown too corrupt from coal and oil industry payments. Instead, the answer is going to come from scientists and engineers, whether in the U.S. or elsewhere. Solar power is on an exponential growth curve in both efficiency and deployment, and is decreasing exponentially in price. It's only a matter time before renewables are the dominant energy source, if only because they make pure economic sense. Likewise, good progress is being made with electric-powered vehicles. The change is probably going to take a few decades to complete, during which the climate will continue to change, but the problem will be solved. Then we can figure out how to carefully geoengineer the planet back to normal.
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Old Yesterday, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
403 posts, read 566,524 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
I stopped putting my faith in politicians some time back; the Republican party have just grown too corrupt from coal and oil industry payments. Instead, the answer is going to come from scientists and engineers, whether in the U.S. or elsewhere. Solar power is on an exponential growth curve in both efficiency and deployment, and is decreasing exponentially in price. It's only a matter time before renewables are the dominant energy source, if only because they make pure economic sense. Likewise, good progress is being made with electric-powered vehicles. The change is probably going to take a few decades to complete, during which the climate will continue to change, but the problem will be solved. Then we can figure out how to carefully geoengineer the planet back to normal.
Tech will solve it. Battery tech is a big hang up, though, since rare earth element mining isn’t exactly an environmental miracle. EV range and charging times aren’t up to par either. I park for weeks at a time in a lot with no charging, almost exactly 100 miles from home, so an EV is not yet a practical solution unless it has a petro range extender. Solar is about to be a good base load provider as Ivanpah proves, but the eco-freaks need to stop stepping on their own toes.

It will be a mixed source grid for a while yet, but the march is on.
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Old Yesterday, 08:29 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 399,517 times
Reputation: 1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
But yes, mankind's over-population, alterations and pollutions has definitely caused the rapidity of the extreme changes that are happening this time around and we have done so in a very, very short period of time, just since industrialization and then the population explosion that started 150 years ago. I don't know how any intelligent people could not recognize that except that any people who don't recognize it are simpletons.

.

When all else fails, insult one's intelligence.
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Old Yesterday, 10:12 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,414 posts, read 6,667,170 times
Reputation: 14579
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacInTx View Post
When all else fails, insult one's intelligence.

Yeah, I notice a lot of that going around on both sides of the fence.

.
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Old Yesterday, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,561 posts, read 12,751,278 times
Reputation: 3011
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
when you determine how something can be more than 100%, please let us all know so we can make a fortune on it.

and to claim "scientific evidence says" without any linking is utter BS.

you don't do anything to advance your position with such inanity.
How much warming is caused by humans?

In its 2013 fifth assessment report, the IPCC stated in its summary for policymakers that it is “extremely likely that more than half of the observed increase in global average surface temperature” from 1951 to 2010 was caused by human activity. By “extremely likely”, it meant that there was between a 95% and 100% probability that more than half of modern warming was due to humans.

This somewhat convoluted statement has been often misinterpreted as implying that the human responsibility for modern warming lies somewhere between 50% and 100%. In fact, as NASA’s Dr Gavin Schmidt has pointed out, the IPCC’s implied best guess was that humans were responsible for around 110% of observed warming (ranging from 72% to 146%), with natural factors in isolation leading to a slight cooling over the past 50 years.

Similarly, the recent US fourth national climate assessment found that between 93% to 123% of observed 1951-2010 warming was due to human activities.

These conclusions have led to some confusion as to how more than 100% of observed warming could be attributable to human activity. A human contribution of greater than 100% is possible because natural climate change associated with volcanoes and solar activity would most likely have resulted in a slight cooling over the past 50 years, offsetting some of the warming associated with human activities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...-to-humans/amp
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Old Yesterday, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,352 posts, read 2,644,883 times
Reputation: 6420
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
.... geoengineer the planet back to normal.
Geoengineering will not solve it and neither will tech. I suggest you read up on the Jevons Paradox. That shows that attempts to fix problems like overuse of fossil fuels with technology only compound the problem; people see that there is a technical fix so they think there is no more concern and they burn even more coal and whatnot than before and all the gains of the new technology are obviated. This has happened over and over in history.

The problem is us, humans. All of us. We think we can exploit the hell out of this planet with impunity. We have to change our behavior and can't worm our way out of it by saying technology will make it all better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
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Old Today, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Long Island
33,410 posts, read 14,082,139 times
Reputation: 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
well of course not...if it was

China would be 10 feet under water and burning up > https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn....rbonemissi.jpg
They edged above us recently mostly because they have more people but we had a hundred year head start and still the worst per capita abuser.
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Old Today, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Seattle
1,013 posts, read 220,740 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Geoengineering will not solve it and neither will tech. I suggest you read up on the Jevons Paradox. That shows that attempts to fix problems like overuse of fossil fuels with technology only compound the problem; people see that there is a technical fix so they think there is no more concern and they burn even more coal and whatnot than before and all the gains of the new technology are obviated. This has happened over and over in history.

The problem is us, humans. All of us. We think we can exploit the hell out of this planet with impunity. We have to change our behavior and can't worm our way out of it by saying technology will make it all better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Okay, read it. Well we're technological creatures and that's how we try to solve problems. Expecting human behavior to change is usually ineffective; political beliefs swing with the tides. There's no way to maintain any behavior for extended periods, especially when the problem appears to have gone away. Just look at what is happening with vaccinations. We need short-term goals, like encouraging the more rapid adaptation of renewable energy sources, until they just make the most economic sense and become self-sustaining.
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