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View Poll Results: Climate change caused by humans is a real phenomenon
True 101 56.42%
False 78 43.58%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-05-2019, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Born + raised SF Bay; Tyler, TX now WNY
8,498 posts, read 4,741,154 times
Reputation: 8413

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Yeah, it’s real, but climate activists have failed to get me all that interested in it.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:16 PM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,834 posts, read 6,539,575 times
Reputation: 13331
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Scientists don't do policy, politicians do. So separate out policy from the problem. The important thing is to recognize there is a problem so that we can stop arguing whether CC is real and figure out the best way to solve it. Solutions will be trade offs as they always are. Nobody wants to pay for it, basically. So politicians figure out what is palatable for most people and push that. But the reality is we will all pay something.
I stopped putting my faith in politicians some time back; the Republican party have just grown too corrupt from coal and oil industry payments. Instead, the answer is going to come from scientists and engineers, whether in the U.S. or elsewhere. Solar power is on an exponential growth curve in both efficiency and deployment, and is decreasing exponentially in price. It's only a matter time before renewables are the dominant energy source, if only because they make pure economic sense. Likewise, good progress is being made with electric-powered vehicles. The change is probably going to take a few decades to complete, during which the climate will continue to change, but the problem will be solved. Then we can figure out how to carefully geoengineer the planet back to normal.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Born + raised SF Bay; Tyler, TX now WNY
8,498 posts, read 4,741,154 times
Reputation: 8413
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
I stopped putting my faith in politicians some time back; the Republican party have just grown too corrupt from coal and oil industry payments. Instead, the answer is going to come from scientists and engineers, whether in the U.S. or elsewhere. Solar power is on an exponential growth curve in both efficiency and deployment, and is decreasing exponentially in price. It's only a matter time before renewables are the dominant energy source, if only because they make pure economic sense. Likewise, good progress is being made with electric-powered vehicles. The change is probably going to take a few decades to complete, during which the climate will continue to change, but the problem will be solved. Then we can figure out how to carefully geoengineer the planet back to normal.
Tech will solve it. Battery tech is a big hang up, though, since rare earth element mining isn’t exactly an environmental miracle. EV range and charging times aren’t up to par either. I park for weeks at a time in a lot with no charging, almost exactly 100 miles from home, so an EV is not yet a practical solution unless it has a petro range extender. Solar is about to be a good base load provider as Ivanpah proves, but the eco-freaks need to stop stepping on their own toes.

It will be a mixed source grid for a while yet, but the march is on.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:29 PM
 
2,068 posts, read 998,988 times
Reputation: 3641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
But yes, mankind's over-population, alterations and pollutions has definitely caused the rapidity of the extreme changes that are happening this time around and we have done so in a very, very short period of time, just since industrialization and then the population explosion that started 150 years ago. I don't know how any intelligent people could not recognize that except that any people who don't recognize it are simpletons.

.

When all else fails, insult one's intelligence.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,038,045 times
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Originally Posted by MacInTx View Post
When all else fails, insult one's intelligence.

Yeah, I notice a lot of that going around on both sides of the fence.

.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read 16,373,570 times
Reputation: 5309
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
when you determine how something can be more than 100%, please let us all know so we can make a fortune on it.

and to claim "scientific evidence says" without any linking is utter BS.

you don't do anything to advance your position with such inanity.
How much warming is caused by humans?

In its 2013 fifth assessment report, the IPCC stated in its summary for policymakers that it is “extremely likely that more than half of the observed increase in global average surface temperature” from 1951 to 2010 was caused by human activity. By “extremely likely”, it meant that there was between a 95% and 100% probability that more than half of modern warming was due to humans.

This somewhat convoluted statement has been often misinterpreted as implying that the human responsibility for modern warming lies somewhere between 50% and 100%. In fact, as NASA’s Dr Gavin Schmidt has pointed out, the IPCC’s implied best guess was that humans were responsible for around 110% of observed warming (ranging from 72% to 146%), with natural factors in isolation leading to a slight cooling over the past 50 years.

Similarly, the recent US fourth national climate assessment found that between 93% to 123% of observed 1951-2010 warming was due to human activities.

These conclusions have led to some confusion as to how more than 100% of observed warming could be attributable to human activity. A human contribution of greater than 100% is possible because natural climate change associated with volcanoes and solar activity would most likely have resulted in a slight cooling over the past 50 years, offsetting some of the warming associated with human activities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...-to-humans/amp
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Haiku
7,132 posts, read 4,767,560 times
Reputation: 10327
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
.... geoengineer the planet back to normal.
Geoengineering will not solve it and neither will tech. I suggest you read up on the Jevons Paradox. That shows that attempts to fix problems like overuse of fossil fuels with technology only compound the problem; people see that there is a technical fix so they think there is no more concern and they burn even more coal and whatnot than before and all the gains of the new technology are obviated. This has happened over and over in history.

The problem is us, humans. All of us. We think we can exploit the hell out of this planet with impunity. We have to change our behavior and can't worm our way out of it by saying technology will make it all better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,271 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
well of course not...if it was

China would be 10 feet under water and burning up > https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn....rbonemissi.jpg
They edged above us recently mostly because they have more people but we had a hundred year head start and still the worst per capita abuser.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:34 AM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,834 posts, read 6,539,575 times
Reputation: 13331
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Geoengineering will not solve it and neither will tech. I suggest you read up on the Jevons Paradox. That shows that attempts to fix problems like overuse of fossil fuels with technology only compound the problem; people see that there is a technical fix so they think there is no more concern and they burn even more coal and whatnot than before and all the gains of the new technology are obviated. This has happened over and over in history.

The problem is us, humans. All of us. We think we can exploit the hell out of this planet with impunity. We have to change our behavior and can't worm our way out of it by saying technology will make it all better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Okay, read it. Well we're technological creatures and that's how we try to solve problems. Expecting human behavior to change is usually ineffective; political beliefs swing with the tides. There's no way to maintain any behavior for extended periods, especially when the problem appears to have gone away. Just look at what is happening with vaccinations. We need short-term goals, like encouraging the more rapid adaptation of renewable energy sources, until they just make the most economic sense and become self-sustaining.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:26 AM
 
13,601 posts, read 4,932,646 times
Reputation: 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post

It is very puzzling indeed how liberals ignore that huge gas ball in the sky and blame CO2. We have two adjacent planets, one cold, one warm, with CO2 concentrations 1,000X that or earth. Obviously, CO2 is not the primary determinant of planetary temperatures.
Surely CO2 is not the only, or even the primary, factor affecting global temperatures. However, it is one factor that has increased by 50% over a short period of time correlating with rising temperatures.

Now that could be merely coincidence. But do you honestly believe that climatologists and atmospheric physicists, with all of their knowledge and advanced methods of collecting and analyzing data, have all somehow just forgotten to factor in the influence of the sun? Or geothermal or other greenhouse gases? That you, with your background in engineering and medicine, have stumbled upon some glaringly obvious error that 95% of scientists trained in those fields have somehow missed? Come on, what are the chances? Why should I believe you and not the experts in the field?
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