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Old 08-04-2019, 09:30 AM
Location: Itinerant
6,402 posts, read 4,242,774 times
Reputation: 4931


Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
I suggest the meaning of Militia was this -

The obligation to serve in the militia in England derives from a common law tradition, and dates back to Anglo-Saxon times. The tradition was that all able-bodied males were liable to be called out to serve in one of two organisations. These were the posse comitatus, an ad hoc assembly called together by a law officer to apprehend lawbreakers, and the fyrd a military body intended to preserve internal order or defend the locality against an invader. The latter developed into the militia, and was usually embodied by a royal warrant. Service in each organisation involved different levels of preparednes

So the US is basically using something developed from Anglo Saxon times to justify it's gun laws, indeed it's so ridiculous you couldn't make it up.

Anglo-Saxons - Wikipedia

Well if you think that's ridiculous, so must the innocent until proven guilty, another gift from Anglo-Saxons, as well as marriage (which I admit to considering slightly anachronistic), finally of course there's the common law principle of that which is not prohibited is permitted, which streamlines law in general, unlike certain European legal systems where an arrest and prosecution may result in the determination of a legal action, under Anglo-Saxon laws, without a legal prohibition there can be no justification for arrest or prosecution.

Just because something is old doesn't make it invalid or ridiculous Pythagoras died 495 BCE his theorem is just as valid now as then (and even if he isnt truly responsible he was aware of its existence). Pi as a ratio of circumference and diameter has been known since 2500 BCE, proving both that it's not obsolete, and not irrational that it is not (that's a math joke).

Here's an even better one, we justify democracy, which developed in Athens 507-508 BCE, is that ridiculous also?
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:32 AM
39,786 posts, read 41,146,672 times
Reputation: 16474
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
... just better regulation of certain guns that are reguarly used in massacres.

There is fundamentally no difference between a semi-auto AK47 and any other semi-auto rifle. If you can justify banning a AK47 based on it's functionality then any semi-auto rifle can be banned.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:32 AM
Location: Great Britain
12,161 posts, read 4,148,499 times
Reputation: 7515
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
We NEVER spoke LATIN in America, especially Latin from the 16th century!

English definoition


Learn to pronounce

noun: militia; plural noun: militiasa military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
  1. "creating a militia was no answer to the army's manpower problem"
    • a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities in opposition to a regular army.
    • all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.


late 16th century: from Latin, literally ‘military service’, from miles, milit- ‘soldier’.

Translate militia to

Use over time for: militia
Most countries did't speak latin however they derived many words and meanings from latin and latin as well as greek are the two classical languages.

It was the English who introduced the concept of a Militia to the US, and it goes back to Anglo Saxon times in England.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:33 AM
Location: SGV
25,271 posts, read 9,856,497 times
Reputation: 9837
Go ahead and repeal it. I never signed it nor do I receive my rights from it. Won't make a difference to the morally and logically consistent folks (anarchists).
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:33 AM
Location: California
683 posts, read 497,024 times
Reputation: 990
Isn't a well regulated militia different from stockpiling weapons in your home? It says nothing of the sort in the amendment that that is okay. The intention is the people can bear arms under a well regulated militia.

I've read the amendment ad naseum and while the language is vague it actually alludes to forming local militiaries to keep the federal government at bay.

Using this logic, if San Jose, CA formed a militia I could sign up part-time and train on whatever weapons available. But it doesn't mean I can stockpile them in my house. The intention of the amendment was that if the federal government overreached and declared martial law using the army to bully our local district theoretically the San Jose militia could be used to protect the region's interest. Then I could show up at my local militia center with other local citizens don up in body armor and use whatever weapons available to fight the army.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:34 AM
30,255 posts, read 15,727,034 times
Reputation: 20360
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
The Constitution can and should be amended.

We did it with Prohibition.

Not a reason in the world we can't do it now, other than the NRA owning the president and GOP. That can change in the future, and probably will. Enough is enough.
If you want to change the Constitution to remove a freedom and prevent people from protecting themselves, have at it. Good luck.

BTW, only a small percentage of the hundreds of millions of guns will be turned in. You'll be making criminals out of people who might only break a speeding law and cause people to not report gun thefts. It will change nothing but taking away a right, reducing self protection and allowing criminals greater power over their victims.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:34 AM
Location: Chicago, IL
4,173 posts, read 4,199,075 times
Reputation: 4856
You can't stop a man who doesn't care about his own life, no matter what laws are in place.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:36 AM
37,762 posts, read 16,357,637 times
Reputation: 8566
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
The 2nd says no such thing. Who is it that tells people this nutty stuff?
Her is my partial list of quotes on the 2nd to back me up. Where is yours?

I have MORE.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785"

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

"To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:36 AM
Location: NY/LA
3,415 posts, read 2,874,285 times
Reputation: 2622
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Have drug laws stopped illegal drugs from being in the hands of criminals?
In your opinion, if heroin, cocaine and crack were legal, and you could buy it at the local Walmart, do you think more people would be using, or fewer?
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:36 AM
11,137 posts, read 6,206,833 times
Reputation: 6157
Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider View Post
You can't stop a man who doesn't care about his own life, no matter what laws are in place.
But you can take the weapon of mass murder out of his hands.
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