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Old 08-05-2019, 08:47 AM
 
7,661 posts, read 8,851,599 times
Reputation: 9979

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Old 08-05-2019, 08:55 AM
 
7,209 posts, read 2,618,408 times
Reputation: 3928
Per thread title and opening question - keep being a responsible firearms owner. Nothing that happened this weekend has changed anything about my absolute, natural, individual rights to own property, or to defend myself and my property. My various firearms have not changed into sentient beings capable of self-directed acts, nor has my absolute belief in the Non Aggression Principle changed in the slightest way such that I would direct those weapons in any manner other than my own defense or safe hobby entertainment.

What can I possibly do about mass shootings except continue my pretty easily followed behavior of not causing harm to my fellow man, and also being smart enough to avoid places/events/areas where my ability to defend myself is limited by a faceless bureaucracy who prefers me being helpless.

Carry more often and practice more, in case I am forced to help those who choose to not help themselves? Maybe?
 
Old 08-05-2019, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,949 posts, read 17,921,063 times
Reputation: 15943
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpgypsy View Post
Armed police were on the scene in under a minute...by some reports within 30 seconds. “Think about that minute,” said Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley. “The shooter was able to kill nine people and injure 26 in less than a minute.”

The gun-permissiveness crowd wants us not to think about that minute. It puts the lie to the gun lobby’s claim that having armed people nearby when a mass killer strikes is all we need to keep us safe.
That demonstrates the point of concealed carry. When seconds count, police are minutes away. One concealed carrier could have stopped this madman in seconds.



Honestly-the bigger issue is how are we failing so badly as parents? We are raising monsters. No one wants to step up and admit their failures as parents, or as educators, or as society as a whole. But it wasn't the gun that went on a rampage-it was the person holding it. Far easier to blame an inanimate object (or other people) than to step up, take responsibility and admit to their own failures.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,949 posts, read 17,921,063 times
Reputation: 15943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
I wish someone would do something about all the shootings in Chicago. There were 'mass shootings' defined as 4 our more killed in once incident in Chicago this weekend. Why isn't the media down there on the south side of Chicago for days on end?

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/08...ass-shootings/
The vast majority of murder victims in Chicago are black. Somehow their lives don't seem to matter to the MSM and they get virtually no notice on the national media.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 09:03 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,507 posts, read 11,811,668 times
Reputation: 13520
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpgypsy View Post
Armed police were on the scene in under a minute...by some reports within 30 seconds. “Think about that minute,” said Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley. “The shooter was able to kill nine people and injure 26 in less than a minute.”

The gun-permissiveness crowd wants us not to think about that minute. It puts the lie to the gun lobby’s claim that having armed people nearby when a mass killer strikes is all we need to keep us safe.

There is a LOT more to this than you are thinking about. As an armed citizen it's always at the front of my mind how I might have to react to such a situation as we are discussing here. First and foremost I keep it in my head that it's more than likely I will NOT be able to engage the shooter. There will be a seriously fouled field of fire with innocents in the way.


The best I will be able to do is cover peoples retreat and hope if the shooter comes after me and those I'm trying to protect I will have a clear shot. The shooter will not be worried about those innocents like I would be and they will be his cover. Just as good or better than a steel wall. I can hope that someone else is armed and does have a clear shot but I can't count on that.


There is no plan. Events will unfold second by second. Still, it is a far better thing that others be armed as well as me. That ups the chance that someone will get a clear shot at the shooter. Personally I'm not counting on that being me. Maybe, maybe not. If I do get a clear shot rest assured I will engage and put my rounds on target. And pray any cops nearby don't send a hail of lead at me as cops are wont to do.


Thankfully cops here where I live are very used to armed citizens. Still it is not wise to count on that either. Such events as this are a wild and crazy mess with mass confusion and panic. And not all armed citizens or police are trained to the level I am. Which in all humility is quite high. But that doesn't matter a whit in the big pic. If I can't get a clear shot all the training and skill in the world won't count for squat. And I won't, I can't use my weapon if doing so would put innocents in danger. Cops can. They can and will engage a shooter in a crowd. If fired round from police fire hit innocents oh well. Just as long as they do manage to put the shooter down.


We citizens have to operate under a different set of rules. There's no points awarded for good intentions. There is with cops. Often the best an armed citizen can do is cover peoples retreat from the area, like the guy in El Paso did. He deserves high praise for what he did and he didn't fire a shot.


At any rate if someone starts shooting a place up I would much rather be armed myself and hope others are as well. And are proficient and using their heads. That ups the chances of survival for those we are trying to cover and our own survival as well. At least we will be able to shoot back if we have to.


You would do well to study up a bit on things from an armed citizens point of view. We have a limited sphere of operation. But at least within that sphere we can do something other than just die.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 09:04 AM
 
1,292 posts, read 441,799 times
Reputation: 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
The kids who don’t have the grades for college should be required to do at least 2 years in the military.

I believe the “Greatest Generation” was so great because the entire generation served in the military and learned teamwork and discipline. Also, the military can identify these dangerous nuts like these shooters and deal with them. Add ten thousand psychiatrists to the services and put them to work examining the odd ducks the DI’s identify.
Looks like you think kids who should be in the service who don't go to college
So only kids who don't go to college should go in the military and be checked out and the wealthy taking basket weaving and Social Justice Weenie courses and get taught by 25 yo professors skate free.
Ill tell you I would rather live in a world of apprentice plumbers and electricians than the SJWs.
Ps ,the draft has been done away with. If it comes back ,ALL should be required to serve ,,,no deferments. eg, College SJWs. & Senators Sons .
 
Old 08-05-2019, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
14,615 posts, read 8,071,726 times
Reputation: 54014
I am a gun owner and love to target practice. It's a fun sport. However, I support responsible gun legislation. I don't think it's fair to take away my guns because I am a responsible owner, and why punish the majority for a minority of nuts? That being said, something needs to be done to protect innocent people. There are far too many accidents by good gun owners that get careless. How are teenagers getting assault weapons?

We need stronger red flag legislation, and get the damn NRA dark money out of politics. They're nothing more than an evil gun lobby that puts profit ahead of lives. I'd love to see the NRA disbanded. Thoughts and Prayers are nothing more than empty words. It's time for reform.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 09:32 AM
 
1,292 posts, read 441,799 times
Reputation: 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
I am a gun owner and love to target practice. It's a fun sport. However, I support responsible gun legislation. I don't think it's fair to take away my guns because I am a responsible owner, and why punish the majority for a minority of nuts? That being said, something needs to be done to protect innocent people. There are far too many accidents by good gun owners that get careless. How are teenagers getting assault weapons?

We need stronger red flag legislation, and get the damn NRA dark money out of politics. They're nothing more than an evil gun lobby that puts profit ahead of lives. I'd love to see the NRA disbanded. Thoughts and Prayers are nothing more than empty words. It's time for reform.
Do you really think the anti 2ed amend. folks will be happy and go away if the NRA went away Im not a big NRA guy but firearm owners don't have any other national clout . The Antis will smell blood in the water with the end of nra .
 
Old 08-05-2019, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
705 posts, read 194,864 times
Reputation: 1175
Arrow Plan for Preventing Mass Shootings

Here in Florida there are ten categories of persons who are not eligible to purchase or possess a firearm under federal law (Title 18, United States Code 922(g)(1)-(9), (n)):

1. Convicted of a felony (or equivalent)
2. Fugitive from justice
3. Unlawful user or addicted to a controlled substance
4. Adjudicated mentally defective or involuntarily committed to treatment
5. Illegal alien
6. Dishonorable discharge from the US Armed Forces
7. Renounced United States citizenship
8. Active protection order (restraining order, injunction for protection, etc.)
9. Convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
10. Under indictment or information for a felony

So there already are laws to prohibit most 'bad guys' from obtaining a firearm. But I believe there is a major loophole that is being overlooked by law enforcement:

The main thing most of these shooters have in common is that they made threats of extreme violence online. Therefore, if we are to prevent these home-grown terrorists from killing, we have to take swift action when there are obvious Red Flags (online threats, personal threats, written manifestos, etc).

These threats need to be taken seriously, and an Injunction filed for Threat Of Violence. A Court Order should then be obtained to search the residence and remove all firearms until the offender has been through psychological evaluation, has been treated, and deemed no longer to be a threat. If threats are made again, the violator should be barred permanently from purchasing, owning, or even possessing a firearm with severe prison time if violated.

No reasonable, law-abiding, gun-owning citizen should object to this process, which would have made a difference in these latest shootings as well as others (Parkland, Columbine, etc)
 
Old 08-05-2019, 09:37 AM
 
10,224 posts, read 4,777,431 times
Reputation: 5657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumann Koch View Post
Here in Florida there are ten categories of persons who are not eligible to purchase or possess a firearm under federal law (Title 18, United States Code 922(g)(1)-(9), (n)):

1. Convicted of a felony (or equivalent)
2. Fugitive from justice
3. Unlawful user or addicted to a controlled substance
4. Adjudicated mentally defective or involuntarily committed to treatment
5. Illegal alien
6. Dishonorable discharge from the US Armed Forces
7. Renounced United States citizenship
8. Active protection order (restraining order, injunction for protection, etc.)
9. Convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
10. Under indictment or information for a felony

So there already are laws to prohibit most 'bad guys' from obtaining a firearm. But I believe there is a major loophole that is being overlooked by law enforcement:

The main thing most of these shooters have in common is that they made threats of extreme violence online. Therefore, if we are to prevent these home-grown terrorists from killing, we have to take swift action when there are obvious Red Flags (online threats, personal threats, written manifestos, etc).

These threats need to be taken seriously, and an Injunction filed for Threat Of Violence. A Court Order should then be obtained to search the residence and remove all firearms until the offender has been through psychological evaluation, has been treated, and deemed no longer to be a threat. If threats are made again, the violator should be barred permanently from purchasing, owning, or even possessing a firearm with severe prison time if violated.

No respectable, law-abiding, gun-owning citizen should object to this process, which would have made a difference in these latest shootings as well as others (Parkland, Columbine, etc)
The government ignores warnings
A gun store refused to sell the nightclub shooter a gun and notified the FBI..they did nothing
The Parkland shooter had the police called on him over 30 times...nothing was done


Until the authorities follow up on the warnings, it can't get better.
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