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Old 08-06-2019, 12:09 PM
 
3,000 posts, read 974,853 times
Reputation: 1113

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Oh really? The Mall was a designated Gun Free Zone?

Would you verify that with a link of some sort and I will publicly eat my hat.

Waiting with a fresh bottle of Catsup.
A-1 will make it taste way better than catsup. But I'd personally try to get you some Armadillo Willies BBQ sauce. Just say'in.

 
Old 08-06-2019, 12:12 PM
 
39,130 posts, read 15,385,022 times
Reputation: 25538
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
No, it wasn't me who you responded to and unless you give me a more reliable, non partisan source besides Conservapedia, I'm dismissing your post as propaganda perpetrated by the right.

Did a CCW take out the El Paso shooter among 3000 people? No
Did a CCW take out or at least return fire in Dayton? No
Did a CCW take out the shooter or return fire On July 28th in Chippewa Falls Wisconsin? No
Did a CCW take out the shooter or return fire on July 28th in Gilroy California? No
Did a CCW take out or return fire on May 31, in Virginia Beach, Va.? No

I could take this list way far back and bury you with mass shootings in public places where nobody tried to take out the attacker or return fire.
How come nobody among 3000 people in a retail environment IN TEXAS had a gun to shoot back..
I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that there were lots of guns there but nobody used them.

CCW doesn't work very well unless it's a one on one confrontation. If you're stalking the shooter with your CCW, you're more likely to get shot by the first officer who's on the scene and sees you with your weapon drawn.
The only story I've read about a person fighting back was 29 y/o James Shaw Jr. who wrestled an AR-15 rifle from a gunman who had already killed four people at Nashville Waffle House.

He grabbed the hot barrel of the AR-15 and threw it over the counter, then grabbed the shooter and hauled him outside.

James Shaw was unarmed. Nonetheless, he took care of business.

4b511ec12ebb414d994c08671f0f2490
 
Old 08-06-2019, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
45,949 posts, read 37,071,523 times
Reputation: 65248
Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
A-1 will make it taste way better that catsup. But I'd personally try to get you some Armadillo Willies BBQ sauce. Just say'in.
Hey, I love Schlotsky's hot sauce myself!

I can't believe how clueless some people are about facts that are pretty dang easy to verify.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 12:16 PM
 
3,000 posts, read 974,853 times
Reputation: 1113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
The only story I've read about a person fighting back was 29 y/o James Shaw Jr. who wrestled an AR-15 rifle from a gunman who had already killed four people at Nashville Waffle House.

He grabbed the hot barrel of the AR-15 and threw it over the counter, then grabbed the shooter and hauled him outside.

James Shaw was unarmed. Nonetheless, he took care of business.

4b511ec12ebb414d994c08671f0f2490
After getting him outside, I hope he broke his foot off in his arse.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,524 posts, read 3,644,004 times
Reputation: 8478
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Hey, I love Schlotsky's hot sauce myself!

I can't believe how clueless some people are about facts that are pretty dang easy to verify.
Haha sooo Texan! My husband consumes those packets straight-up.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 12:18 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,963 posts, read 32,685,374 times
Reputation: 20315
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
OK for starters, you and I have no idea how many - IF ANY - customers in Wal Mart were actually carrying a gun. For instance, I have a License to Carry, but I don't always carry a weapon with me because frankly, it's heavy and it weighs down my purse. Maybe I should carry it more often, maybe not, who knows...But if I'm going to multiple places, some don't allow weapons at all, so there's that. So I'd have to leave it in the vehicle. And as others have said, if you're going to the mall and then to WalMart in El Paso, it's illegal to carry a weapon into the mall.

Secondly, say someone DID have a weapon with them - You and I have no idea whether or not they were in a position where it would do any good to draw that weapon or shoot that weapon, and it would be irresponsible to do so if it was unnecessary or detrimental to the situation.

Just so ya know - Texas actually ranks pretty middle of the pack when it comes to licenses to carry per capita. It is FAR outranked by several states, including Alabama, Indiana, South Dakota, Florida, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Utah, Washington state, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Iowa. Per capita, it's on about the same level as Oregon.
https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

But to dig even deeper, let's look at licenses to carry ranked by county in Texas. Guess what - El Paso doesn't even rank in the top forty. And overall, 3.6 percent of Texans are licensed gun owners.
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...IP-6777817.php

And finally, you asked for recent scenarios where a shooter was stopped by a citizen using a gun (licensed). Here you go:
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/poli...park/806192101
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...er-in-oklahoma
https://abc3340.com/news/local/armed...gham-mcdonalds
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/us/ke...ing/index.html
https://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...419-story.html
https://www.kxan.com/news/sutherland...ession-begins/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41382492
Home intruders:
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...212474004.html
https://www.ocala.com/news/20190711/...ers-with-ar-15

Interesting oped on the topic, from USA Today:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...es/1916643001/
More interesting reading, regarding the Center for Disease Control studies, which were never made public, for some reason:
https://reason.com/2018/04/20/cdc-pr...that-plenty-o/

And finally - just a little story for you from my own personal life. One time, when I was a lot younger, probably in my 30s, I was traveling on business and was on a country backroad with no other vehicles in sight other than a PU truck ahead of me, which was going slower and slower. Finally this truck stopped right in front of me, and out jumped two guys (there was a third in the cab). They looked, shall I say, unsavory. I was a young woman alone at dusk, and these guys were headed straight for me, with leering faces - clearly up to no good. I had my hand gun with me. All I did was raise it up - I didn't even point it at them, just let them see it. IMMEDIATELY they turned tail and ran back to the truck and it took off like a bat out of hell with them inside it.

I am pretty sure if I hadn't had that gun with me, the ending would not have been pretty that night.
My wife decided she wanted to stay at the truck instead of glassing deer with me down a steep hill. About 15 min later she shows up freaked out and carrying another of my deer rifles. She was surrounded by 3 guys on motorcycles that wouldn't take their helmets off. She jumped in the truck and grabbed a rifle. Them dudes gooooooone. Turned out later they were poachers wondering why we were looking at "Their" deer.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,203 posts, read 7,907,252 times
Reputation: 7042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
Saving you the time to look it up, Cielo Vista mall is a Simon property - https://www.simon.com/mall/cielo-vista-mall/stores



Check out #3 - https://www.simon.com/legal/code-of-conduct


Or better yet, signs posted at Simon properties. #6 on that list.



I hope you wear a hat like this.
After much research online before I posted, I'll tell you this much,

That sign you posted is not from the El Paso, Tx. Simon Mall. Simon Malls are all over the Nation and their rules are State law specific. You've posted another state's poster.

Here is the best answer I got from Simon Corporate offices when I called them. "Some of our malls are gun free zones and others aren't depending on the state." She stated that she knew of "none of the Simon Malls in Tx are Gun Free zones."

Here is another verification that not only was the Simon Mall not a gun free zone but open carry was allowed there at the Walmart.

"There were no armed security guards on duty at the time of the massacre in El Paso. It was a busy shopping weekend, with the store packed with people stocking up for the new school year.
Because of open-carry gun laws in Texas, Walmart shoppers at the store in El Paso and other stores around the state are allowed to carry firearms openly."


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/b...rime-rate.html

The only other reference to Gun Free Zones was in the Shooter's manifesto, where he claimed to want to do his shooting in a gun free zone for obvious reasons. That bird don't fly because he's already confessed to the Tx authorities that he was lost in El Paso, and only stopped in the Walmart to get something to eat. When he saw how many Latinos were there he went back and got his AKM. So he didn't pick the Walmart in El Paso, because it was a gun free zone.

I'll wait for you the verify that the poster you linked to is from the Simon Malls Center in El Paso, Tx. Untill such a time, I'll keep my hat on my head.

In amplifying my original point, You guys are saying that CCW is an effective remedy against mass shooters? Well if that's the case then your record of success is abysmal. Just saying
Your real agenda is to parlay this tragedy into pressuring the governments (fed and local) to abolish gun free zones.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 12:51 PM
 
3,000 posts, read 974,853 times
Reputation: 1113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
After much research online before I posted, I'll tell you this much,

That sign you posted is not from the El Paso, Tx. Simon Mall. Simon Malls are all over the Nation and their rules are State law specific. You've posted another state's poster.

Here is the best answer I got from Simon Corporate offices when I called them. "Some of our malls are gun free zones and others aren't depending on the state." She stated that she knew of "none of the Simon Malls in Tx are Gun Free zones."

Here is another verification that not only was the Simon Mall not a gun free zone but open carry was allowed there at the Walmart.

"There were no armed security guards on duty at the time of the massacre in El Paso. It was a busy shopping weekend, with the store packed with people stocking up for the new school year.
Because of open-carry gun laws in Texas, Walmart shoppers at the store in El Paso and other stores around the state are allowed to carry firearms openly."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/b...rime-rate.html

The only other reference to Gun Free Zones was in the Shooter's manifesto, where he claimed to want to do his shooting in a gun free zone for obvious reasons. That bird don't fly because he's already confessed to the Tx authorities that he was lost in El Paso, and only stopped in the Walmart to get something to eat. When he saw how many Latinos were there he went back and got his AKM. So he didn't pick the Walmart in El Paso, because it was a gun free zone.

I'll wait for you the verify that the poster you linked to is from the Simon Malls Center in El Paso, Tx. Untill such a time, I'll keep my hat on my head.

In amplifying my original point, You guys are saying that CCW is an effective remedy against mass shooters? Well if that's the case then your record of success is abysmal. Just saying
Your real agenda is to parlay this tragedy into pressuring the governments (fed and local) to abolish gun free zones.
Open carry. Means you can carry it as long as it's visible. But from what I understand, you can't have bullets in the weapon or on your person. I'll consult my associates who reside in Texas ASAP about it and get back with you. But from my recollection of past discussions with them, open carry doesn't always mean with a loaded weapon, just that the weapon (without ammo) is openly displayed.

Now one thing to note, open carry doesn't allow weapons at events where there are a lot of children present, for example at amusement parks, sporting events, educational institutions, etc. Since this shooting happened at a mall, and that mall was full of kids shopping for back to school materials, I'd say that it was most likely a "gun free" zone and open carry was not allowed.

I'll find out for sure.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,203 posts, read 7,907,252 times
Reputation: 7042
My whole point is getting lost in the minutiae of parsing whether it was permitted or not.
FYI: I have been carrying concealed in Arizona for at least 15 years and not the rubber stamp permit where anyone is allowed to carry concealed. I took the classes, got the fingerprints, background checks and was investigated and approved by Arizona DPS, which is Arizona's state police.

I CCW all the time and as another poster has stated, CCW is for defense and personal protection only. It is not effective or even advised in Mass shootings and every police dept will tell you that you have a better chance of getting shot by the police than taking out the mass shooter. It was just my response to the title of the thread and the OP.

If all you folks are going to claim that CCW is an effective tactic against mass shootings, I will strongly disagree.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,203 posts, read 7,907,252 times
Reputation: 7042
Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
Open carry. Means you can carry it as long as it's visible. But from what I understand, you can't have bullets in the weapon or on your person. I'll consult my associates who reside in Texas ASAP about it and get back with you. But from my recollection of past discussions with them, open carry doesn't always mean with a loaded weapon, just that the weapon (without ammo) is openly displayed.

Now one thing to note, open carry doesn't allow weapons at events where there are a lot of children present, for example at amusement parks, sporting events, educational institutions, etc. Since this shooting happened at a mall, and that mall was full of kids shopping for back to school materials, I'd say that it was most likely a "gun free" zone and open carry was not allowed.

I'll find out for sure.
Thanks for that, It would help.

Personally, I wouldn't open carry in public, I would conceal carry instead. The only time I ever open carry is when I go out into the desert for camping or other activities and then I strap a much bigger iron to my waist than my CCW pistol. I never open carry in town, although some around here do.
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