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Old 08-06-2019, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
45,960 posts, read 37,085,658 times
Reputation: 65276

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
Haha sooo Texan! My husband consumes those packets straight-up.
And they're not even hot but dang it, they are SOOOOOO GOOD. You can buy the sauce by the bottle so of course I am stocked up! I bet your husband could order some online if he can't get to a Schlotskys!

 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
45,960 posts, read 37,085,658 times
Reputation: 65276
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
After much research online before I posted, I'll tell you this much,

That sign you posted is not from the El Paso, Tx. Simon Mall. Simon Malls are all over the Nation and their rules are State law specific. You've posted another state's poster.

Here is the best answer I got from Simon Corporate offices when I called them. "Some of our malls are gun free zones and others aren't depending on the state." She stated that she knew of "none of the Simon Malls in Tx are Gun Free zones."

Here is another verification that not only was the Simon Mall not a gun free zone but open carry was allowed there at the Walmart.

"There were no armed security guards on duty at the time of the massacre in El Paso. It was a busy shopping weekend, with the store packed with people stocking up for the new school year.
Because of open-carry gun laws in Texas, Walmart shoppers at the store in El Paso and other stores around the state are allowed to carry firearms openly."


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/b...rime-rate.html

The only other reference to Gun Free Zones was in the Shooter's manifesto, where he claimed to want to do his shooting in a gun free zone for obvious reasons. That bird don't fly because he's already confessed to the Tx authorities that he was lost in El Paso, and only stopped in the Walmart to get something to eat. When he saw how many Latinos were there he went back and got his AKM. So he didn't pick the Walmart in El Paso, because it was a gun free zone.

I'll wait for you the verify that the poster you linked to is from the Simon Malls Center in El Paso, Tx. Untill such a time, I'll keep my hat on my head.

In amplifying my original point, You guys are saying that CCW is an effective remedy against mass shooters? Well if that's the case then your record of success is abysmal. Just saying
Your real agenda is to parlay this tragedy into pressuring the governments (fed and local) to abolish gun free zones.

You know what - you don't have to call someone (who may or may not know the correct answer) - you can actually look up Simon Properties Shopper Code of Conduct which applies to all states and all Simon Properties. Then you could actually provide evidence of your assertions.

Here's an excerpt (feel free to look through the whole link but I couldn't find any exceptions based on state laws):

Quote:
Last Updated: January 31, 2019

Thank you for choosing a Simon shopper center as your destination for shopping, great food, and entertainment. It is our desire to provide you with an enjoyable and delightful shopping experience. We ask all of our guests to conduct themselves in a respectful way in accordance with the code of conduct and all laws and local ordinances.

Wear appropriate clothing. Hoodies are acceptable as long as your face remains visible.
Disruptive behavior is prohibited.
No weapons.
Possession of open alcoholic beverages except in designated areas is prohibited.
No solicitation.
No pets (except service animals).
Engaging in non-commercial expressive activity not sponsored by the center is prohibited.
Smoking except in designated areas is prohibited.
No loitering.
No photographs or video recordings of any kind for commercial use. Video is acceptable for non-commercial and non-disruptive purposes.
Use of transmitters, radar, lasers, beacons, cellular triangulation, GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, magnetic or barometric technologies, or geographic information systems of any kind to capture geographic location or spatial data for commercial use is prohibited.
https://www.simon.com/legal/code-of-conduct
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:19 PM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
32,366 posts, read 37,111,147 times
Reputation: 39279
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
True story.

I have a seriously mentally ill brother who has a violent criminal record, including several felonies. It is not legal for him to own or be in possession of a gun - ANY sort of gun.

Wow, we really do have a problem in this country and I don't think it's friends and relatives and neighbors not saying anything. We have multiple reports by school mates and contemporaries of Connor Betts, who say that they went to authorities repeatedly BUT NOTHING SERIOUS WAS EVER ACCOMPLISHED BY THIS. "See something, say something" sounds good but the reality is that it often does no good at all.
You know why? They won't do anything until he's broken a law and he has rights. Plus they have so many evil criminals who have broken the laws to chase that your brother means nothing. He's low man on the pecking order until he does something.

Just like the Ohio shooter who had a kill and rape list in high school. They will do nothing.

If he is Black, they will do even less because they don't want to tilt the numbers toward it appearing to be a Racial minority.

All this talk about Red Flag Laws.

Just more talk even if they made them laws.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:22 PM
 
20,547 posts, read 11,458,104 times
Reputation: 20767
Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
Open carry. Means you can carry it as long as it's visible. But from what I understand, you can't have bullets in the weapon or on your person. I'll consult my associates who reside in Texas ASAP about it and get back with you. But from my recollection of past discussions with them, open carry doesn't always mean with a loaded weapon, just that the weapon (without ammo) is openly displayed.
Open carry in Texas explicitly means the gun is loaded and ready to use. I've never heard of "open carry" anywhere being defined as unloaded and openly displayed.

Right now in Texas a person with a handgun carry license can wear the gun loaded and either concealed or unconcealed. The license makes no distinction.

In all places I've seen a gun required to be unloaded it also has to be cased because the point of requiring it to be unloaded in the first place is to render it not quickly usable.

Walmart's policy is to go along with state law, which means Walmarts in Texas permit either open or concealed carry by people with the license. In fact, the "Walmart Walk" is kind of a rite of passage for new carry license holders. I don't know whether or not the Walmart attached to a Simon center would necessarily have to follow their rules or not if the Walmart has its own entrances.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,332 posts, read 14,457,258 times
Reputation: 16520
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
CCW doesn't work very well unless it's a one on one confrontation.
That's not what your evidence proves.

For CCW to work, someone with a CCW has to be present, and not only present, but actually carrying.

I know quite a few CCW holders who do not carry 100% of the time.

Not only does a CCW holder have to be present and carrying, they have to be on top of the action.

Your claim is valid if and only if a CCW holder was present and carrying and in a position to actually take action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
I'm at a loss here.
Why?

It's not Quantum String Theory. All the answers and solutions you need are in a document called The Constitution.

After your emotions subside and you can think logically about the problem, then you can see what needs to be done.

The rate of gun deaths in the US is 4.3 per 100,000.

The rate of traffic accident deaths in the US is 12.28 per 100,000.

That means you're 3x more likely to die of a traffic accident than a victim of gun violence.

A mass shooting is defined as 4 or more dead or injured and there were 323 of those in 2018 with 387 dead and 1,274 wounded or 1,661.

That's 1,661 per 317 Million or 166.1 per 31.7 Million or 16.6 per 3.2 Million or 1.7 per 302,000 or 0.56 per 100,000.

That doesn't make their lives any less valuable than any other person, but it's a bit over-reacting to get emotionally bent out of shape.

Banning guns will not end it.

I was on a task-force with the FBI, US Coast Guard, US Customs and other agencies and 1,000s of guns -- hand-guns and rifles -- were smuggled into Virginia each year alone.

Figure how many guns are illegally smuggled into North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, California, Oregon, Washington, Maine, Rhode Island, Delaware, Maryland, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania.

And that doesn't even count the illegal weapons smuggled into Alaska then brought into the US through Canada or brought into Canada and then smuggled over the Great Lakes into Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania or New York.

And then all the illegal weapons smuggled into the US from Mexico.

If you think you can stop guns from coming into the US, you thought wrong.

You stop gun smuggling only if you close the Canadian and Mexican borders -- entry into the US by air travel only -- and permanently bar pleasure craft from coastal US waters plus search every suspect merchant vessel entering US coastal waters.

Aside from that, you can bar felons from ever possessing or using a firearm forever, set minimum mandatory life sentence for any crimes involving a weapon whether it was used or displayed or not, and require persons to obtain a permit which includes a criminal background check and flagged persons with mental illness.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,524 posts, read 3,644,004 times
Reputation: 8478
Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
Open carry. Means you can carry it as long as it's visible. But from what I understand, you can't have bullets in the weapon or on your person. I'll consult my associates who reside in Texas ASAP about it and get back with you. But from my recollection of past discussions with them, open carry doesn't always mean with a loaded weapon, just that the weapon (without ammo) is openly displayed.

Now one thing to note, open carry doesn't allow weapons at events where there are a lot of children present, for example at amusement parks, sporting events, educational institutions, etc. Since this shooting happened at a mall, and that mall was full of kids shopping for back to school materials, I'd say that it was most likely a "gun free" zone and open carry was not allowed.

I'll find out for sure.
Open carry has no bullet restrictions. You must be licensed to carry a handgun however in order to open carry in Texas. Everyday unlicensed citizens can only possess a gun in their home, car, RV, boat, etc. and it MUST be concealed.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:27 PM
 
443 posts, read 60,764 times
Reputation: 242
Is a person who consumes Alcohol responsibly, responsible for someone who drinks and drives?
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
45,960 posts, read 37,085,658 times
Reputation: 65276
Quote:
“Possession of any weapon at Simon malls, whether concealed or displayed openly, is in violation of mall policy. This policy is intended first and foremost to maintain a safe, secure and comfortable environment at our malls, which has always been our top priority, and to avoid any situation that could potentially place at risk the safety of our shoppers and employees.

Simon malls are private property, and like virtually every other facility in the community that is accessible by the public, ownership/management has the right to prohibit the possession of weapons, both displayed or concealed, other than licensed weapons carried by law enforcement personnel.

Julie Rigby – Longview Mall Manager”
Longview is in Texas by the way.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:29 PM
 
20,547 posts, read 11,458,104 times
Reputation: 20767
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
The only other reference to Gun Free Zones was in the Shooter's manifesto, where he claimed to want to do his shooting in a gun free zone for obvious reasons. That bird don't fly because he's already confessed to the Tx authorities that he was lost in El Paso, and only stopped in the Walmart to get something to eat. When he saw how many Latinos were there he went back and got his AKM. So he didn't pick the Walmart in El Paso, because it was a gun free zone.
That doesn't make much sense. "Lost in El Paso?" so where where did he intend to be after driving 10 hours south from Allen?

Didn't he know he was going to see a lot more Latinos in a border town than in Allen?

"Whoa! A whole lot of Mexicans in this store only a mile from the Mexican border! I sure didn't expect that!"

No, I don't expect he picked that Walmart because it was specifically a gun-free zone, he picked it because it was full of Latinos.
 
Old 08-06-2019, 01:34 PM
 
3,001 posts, read 975,333 times
Reputation: 1113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
My whole point is getting lost in the minutiae of parsing whether it was permitted or not.
FYI: I have been carrying concealed in Arizona for at least 15 years and not the rubber stamp permit where anyone is allowed to carry concealed. I took the classes, got the fingerprints, background checks and was investigated and approved by Arizona DPS, which is Arizona's state police.

I CCW all the time and as another poster has stated, CCW is for defense and personal protection only. It is not effective or even advised in Mass shootings and every police dept will tell you that you have a better chance of getting shot by the police than taking out the mass shooter. It was just my response to the title of the thread and the OP.

If all you folks are going to claim that CCW is an effective tactic against mass shootings, I will strongly disagree.
Then why are you CCW if it's not an effective tactic?

I just got off the horn with one of my El Paso associates. If the WalMart in question has a 30-06 or 30-07 sign posted, a CCW or open carry is not permitted. In addition to the signage, the person who is in possession of a weapon must have a valid permit to carry.

So at that specific WalMart where the shooting took place, no one legally could carry a firearm onto the premises if 1) 30-06, 30-07 signage is posted and/or 2) they do not lave a valid permit to carry.
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