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Old 08-07-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,768 posts, read 16,082,437 times
Reputation: 9981

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The concert attendees were defenseless. That's the point, and that's why killers deliberately choose to target them.
From an area that wasn't. That makes the Gun Free Zone irrelevant. As I mentioned, Vegas hasn't hasn't fixed this flaw. Phoenix Comic-Con/Comic-Fest/Fan Fusion has removed that after actor Jason David Frank was nearly targeted by someone a few years back. It can be done. Vegas hotels are sleeping at the wheel until the next one. Think the lawsuit on MGM Resorts is bad now, imagine after the next shooting on the strip from a hotel room window...

 
Old 08-07-2019, 08:12 AM
 
67,280 posts, read 30,894,905 times
Reputation: 8834
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
From an area that wasn't.
Doesn't matter. The same would have been true if the garlic Festival shooter shot people from behind the fence. The point is the people he was targeting: unarmed individuals in a gun free zone.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
46,022 posts, read 37,126,320 times
Reputation: 65392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Yes, these shooting are rare, and account for a very, very small amount of homicides by people using a gun. Suicides account for the most, by far, followed by inner city Black on Black murder that is often drug, and gang related.

Why doesn't the MEDIA talk about "Gang Violence" anymore? Why was it replaced by "Gun Violence" to describe inner city gang violence? The Media wants the weak minded to blame the tool, not the criminal. Big mistake.
Bingo. Words have meanings.

I have noticed over the past ten years or so that TERRORIST attacks are no longer called that. They are called TERROR attacks. This subtle change removes the PERPETRATOR as the attacker, and instead puts the concept of "terror" as the attacker - in other words, it's the emotions of the person experiencing the attack, rather than a sorry ass, evil murderer wreaking havoc, that are to blame.

I hate that, and I use the term TERRORIST attack every. single. time.

It's not an attack of terror - it's an attack by a TERRORIST! Dadgummit!
 
Old 08-07-2019, 08:21 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,522 posts, read 11,824,275 times
Reputation: 13525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
We have already proven here in this thread from "ground truth" that Walmart itself is physically and by ownership separate from the shopping center and is not a "gun free" zone...that is, it does not bear the required Texas 30.06/30.07 signage to prohibit carrying handguns, either concealed or open.

Being a gun owner in Texas, the shooter certainly understood what it meant when he saw no sign at the door, and understood Walmart's Texas policies as well.

What was more obvious is that the Walmart was full of Latinos, and mostly women and children as the case with any Walmart, with little effective cover, and he knew he massively outgunned anyone with a handgun.

Fair enough. So see post 466.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
46,022 posts, read 37,126,320 times
Reputation: 65392
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
The Garlic Festival had lots of armed LE who prevented the shooter from inflicting more damage than he did. Texas has some of the laxest gun laws in America, but it didn't help those Wal-Mart shoppers. Dayton police also managed to contain the shooter before he did more damage. More guns aren't the answer. As we've seen, a shooter can take many lives before a well-trained, armed person can take them down. Lots of good guys with guns in these three tragedies, but all they could do was contain the damage. Not much solace to the families of those who are dead and injured.

Maybe arming everyone is not the best idea.

BTW, I don't live in the US, but consider myself a responsible gun owner.
I need to know - what gun laws in Texas are "lax?" Can you please describe what you mean by that? And do you know how many "good guys with guns" (not counting police) were "in these three tragedies?" Simon Properties is who owns the mall that shares a parking lot with WalMart, and it's a gun free, weapon free zone. I know that if I'm going from store to store or in and out of various businesses, even though I am licensed (by the state of Texas) to carry a gun, I generally don't because I'd probably end up leaving it under the seat of the car - because I follow the law. I believe the freaking garlic festival (of all things) was a gun free zone as well. And surely the bars in Dayton were also gun free zones, since it's typically illegal to have a gun where they are selling alcohol.

Of course, only law abiding citizens (aka "good guys") actually pay attention to these laws.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 08:45 AM
 
10,524 posts, read 10,476,758 times
Reputation: 4065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That's not what your evidence proves.

For CCW to work, someone with a CCW has to be present, and not only present, but actually carrying.

I know quite a few CCW holders who do not carry 100% of the time.

Not only does a CCW holder have to be present and carrying, they have to be on top of the action.

Your claim is valid if and only if a CCW holder was present and carrying and in a position to actually take action.



Why?

It's not Quantum String Theory. All the answers and solutions you need are in a document called The Constitution.

After your emotions subside and you can think logically about the problem, then you can see what needs to be done.

The rate of gun deaths in the US is 4.3 per 100,000.

The rate of traffic accident deaths in the US is 12.28 per 100,000.

That means you're 3x more likely to die of a traffic accident than a victim of gun violence.

A mass shooting is defined as 4 or more dead or injured and there were 323 of those in 2018 with 387 dead and 1,274 wounded or 1,661.

That's 1,661 per 317 Million or 166.1 per 31.7 Million or 16.6 per 3.2 Million or 1.7 per 302,000 or 0.56 per 100,000.

That doesn't make their lives any less valuable than any other person, but it's a bit over-reacting to get emotionally bent out of shape.

Banning guns will not end it.

I was on a task-force with the FBI, US Coast Guard, US Customs and other agencies and 1,000s of guns -- hand-guns and rifles -- were smuggled into Virginia each year alone.

Figure how many guns are illegally smuggled into North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, California, Oregon, Washington, Maine, Rhode Island, Delaware, Maryland, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania.

And that doesn't even count the illegal weapons smuggled into Alaska then brought into the US through Canada or brought into Canada and then smuggled over the Great Lakes into Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania or New York.

And then all the illegal weapons smuggled into the US from Mexico.

If you think you can stop guns from coming into the US, you thought wrong.

You stop gun smuggling only if you close the Canadian and Mexican borders -- entry into the US by air travel only -- and permanently bar pleasure craft from coastal US waters plus search every suspect merchant vessel entering US coastal waters.

Aside from that, you can bar felons from ever possessing or using a firearm forever, set minimum mandatory life sentence for any crimes involving a weapon whether it was used or displayed or not, and require persons to obtain a permit which includes a criminal background check and flagged persons with mental illness.

Pressure on the IRON PIPELINE will save lives.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 08:50 AM
 
10,524 posts, read 10,476,758 times
Reputation: 4065
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Wow. MANY TIMES more people are killed by DUIs and distracted drivers (frequently texting) than by shooting deaths. I see no one insisting that vehicles and cell phones be heavily restricted or banned.

The National Safety Council has reported that cell phone use while driving leads to 1.6 million crashes each year. Nearly 330,000 injuries and fatalities occur each year from accidents caused by texting while driving. 1 out of every 4 car accidents in the United States is caused by texting and driving.

Take a look at the data, broken out by age:
Figure 1: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do...riving2015.pdf

Should we ban everyone under age 40 from owning/using cell phones because those in that age group are 68% of those using them while driving resulting in the consequent 1.6 million distracted driving automobile accidents each year?

I'm willing to bet no one would be willing to go along with that, and cell phone ownership/use isn't even a Constitutional Right.


Do you just deflect or do you have any ideas as the thread states?
 
Old 08-07-2019, 09:12 AM
 
Location: San Diego
36,022 posts, read 32,716,172 times
Reputation: 20347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
From an area that wasn't. That makes the Gun Free Zone irrelevant. As I mentioned, Vegas hasn't hasn't fixed this flaw. Phoenix Comic-Con/Comic-Fest/Fan Fusion has removed that after actor Jason David Frank was nearly targeted by someone a few years back. It can be done. Vegas hotels are sleeping at the wheel until the next one. Think the lawsuit on MGM Resorts is bad now, imagine after the next shooting on the strip from a hotel room window...
There needs to be an overwatch on any huge gathering like that. Swat style.

Not unarmed security with a T shirt that says "security".

Last edited by 1AngryTaxPayer; 08-07-2019 at 09:23 AM..
 
Old 08-07-2019, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
14,627 posts, read 8,082,841 times
Reputation: 54052
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
You can't legislate good behavior, you can only punish bad behaviour.

If someone is not concerned about being punished for murdering people, they won't be conerned about being punished for buying a gun illegally.
You have a valid point there. If you look at other countries you will see that these mass shootings are not part of their society, yet, epidemic here. Why do you think that is? Crazy people exist in every city around the globe, yet, there is no mass shootings. Could it be because there is strict common sense gun legislation/regulation? My guess is yes. Research Australia's laws, and what New Zealand did after their mass shooting. It goes beyond empty thoughts and prayers.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 09:30 AM
 
5,032 posts, read 1,012,843 times
Reputation: 2744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"1) increased scrutiny around background checks (upon purchase of gun) " No problem with that

"and an annual license renewal process which includes a background check update." With today's technology not needed, should be able to be flagged to the local police just as your credit card company let's you know about "unusual" charges against your card.

"If you beat your wife" NOPE, a physical action NOT using a gun should NOT be reason to get your gun confiscated.

"commit a felony you lose your guns," ALREADY a law.

"to make a semi auto almost near full auto should be removed."

One reason why we CAN'T have "reasonable discussions" on guns. MOST antis know VERY LITTLE about guns and EXISTING laws.
Really? I don't want anyone who beats a spouse to have access to a gun. Ever. I'm a gun owner, and have taught firearm safety. That type of person is exactly what a Red Flag law should include.
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