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Old 08-07-2019, 09:31 AM
 
20,532 posts, read 11,447,698 times
Reputation: 20744

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
There needs to be an overwatch on any huge gathering like that. Swat style.

Not unarmed security with a T shirt that says "security".
That kind of reminds me of air combat exercises we ran in the mid 80s to prove whether it's possible to protect a high value airborne asset--like an AWACS--from a concerted enemy fighter attack.

Essentially, it wasn't possible to keep at least one lone fighter from getting a missile launched at that fat, slow AWACS.

That's about the same problem faced by an "overwatch" of a huge gathering, parcularly when you can't control the patrons as thoroughly as passengers going onto an aircraft can be controlled, and the environment won't remain as secluded from the outside as an airplane at 30,000 feet is excluded from the outside.

We can body-search ever passenger, get them sealed in the plane, and put the plane at 30,000 feet out of reach of bad guys. There. Safe (unless someone has an illegal GRAIL missile in his car).

But we can't body-search every patron in a Walmart, seal it up, and then put the Walmart out of reach of any bad guys.

 
Old 08-07-2019, 09:32 AM
 
4,940 posts, read 995,961 times
Reputation: 2697
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Outlaw gun ownership in Chicago?

Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 278
Shot & Wounded: 1365
Total Shot: 1643
Total Homicides: 305

But Chicago's shootings aren't Trump's fault but El Paso's is?
Motive. El Paso shooter trumpeted Trump's tantrums.

Not gang related. White nationalist motivated.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
14,616 posts, read 8,069,155 times
Reputation: 54014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
The money they spend to lobby is one of the smallest. The health care companies give obscene amounts to congress.
Yet the money the NRA spent on the presidential election and on Trump was obscene. Read NRA Sticking With Trump, Breaks Own Record for Campaign Spending. NBC News.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 09:36 AM
 
657 posts, read 140,990 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
You have a valid point there. If you look at other countries you will see that these mass shootings are not part of their society, yet, epidemic here. Why do you think that is? Crazy people exist in every city around the globe, yet, there is no mass shootings. Could it be because there is strict common sense gun legislation/regulation? My guess is yes. Research Australia's laws, and what New Zealand did after their mass shooting. It goes beyond empty thoughts and prayers.
My own guess is that the reason places like Switzerland appear to be more free of this kind of thing is that it's full of Swiss people.

Funny thing, that.

There's a lot to be said for a high functioning monolithic culture.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 09:37 AM
 
20,532 posts, read 11,447,698 times
Reputation: 20744
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
You have a valid point there. If you look at other countries you will see that these mass shootings are not part of their society, yet, epidemic here. Why do you think that is? Crazy people exist in every city around the globe, yet, there is no mass shootings. Could it be because there is strict common sense gun legislation/regulation? My guess is yes. Research Australia's laws, and what New Zealand did after their mass shooting. It goes beyond empty thoughts and prayers.
There is more happening in those countries than just the passing of a gun law. The US passes those countries in every means of homicide. And the US is less compassionate, less concerned, about every other way people are killed (including capital punishment, which is a case in point).

The big difference is an American indifference toward death, which manifests itself in numerous different ways. I so many of the political debates in the US: Capital punishment, universal health care, abortion, immigration, every in-depth discussion boils down to people looking you in the eye and saying, "I don't give a damn if those people die."
 
Old 08-07-2019, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Arizona
13,199 posts, read 7,905,701 times
Reputation: 7036
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Please. I thought you were at least part American Indian. From everything I know my tree was almost wiped out by fighting. Long before little basket became a tribe in Colorado and forced into living in the side of hills.

Sounds brutal to me.
I am 50% NA. I'm very familiar with the history, oral and written, of the Native American Tribes. I say this.
With the exception of a few isolated incidents, The tribes engaged in sporadic skirmishes that involved few mortal casualties prior to the Euros sweeping through North America.
Once the Euros started pushing tribes out of their traditional homelands and forced them into other tribal lands the competition for the limited resources became fierce. Killing became often, brutal and complete. Especially when the white man gave certain tribes guns and not others. I know that my immediate ancestors almost annihilated each other fighting for two different factions of white men at the same time.

Yes, the white apologists will throw up isolated incidents in our history. Some True and many false exaggerations.
It is apparent to all Native Americans that the white man in determined to rewrite their history of the conquest of America into some glorious, honorable quest against a bunch of primitive, brutal, ignorant savages but in truth it was the genocidal extermination of an entire continent of it's inhabitants under the guise of manifest destiny.

We're entirely used to being portrayed as brutal savages who were saved by the magnamity of the great white father and know that the white man will never stop until they wipe the true history and memory of the Native American culture from the history books.

This is all I will say on this subject as this thread is about what we as citizens can do to prevent mass shootings. Somebody felt it necessary to deflect from the issue by bringing up the imagined brutality of the native American throughout history without considering the influence of the white man. I felt duty bound to refute that statement with a short rebuttal. You guys still wouldn't let it go so this is a more detailed response.

I'll be glad to discuss this further if anyone wants to start a specific thread on the issue.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 10:40 AM
 
38,084 posts, read 16,479,595 times
Reputation: 8653
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollygee View Post
Vote, stand up for innocent people, want change, don't be complacent, turn in assault guns. Report something that does not look right. There must be hundreds of things we can do.

One thing we should not do is keep hiding our heads in the sand and saying what could I have done. This is an epidemic.

Saying it's not my job, is just another cop out. We need to wake up and take responsibility. If we don't, who will? Look at all the lives lost and lives affected by the senseless killings and wounding of innocents.

We are in a war zone and we may be losing battles and the war. JMO
"turn in assault guns" can't turn in something that does NOT EXIST!

Just because ignorant people CLAIM a certain gun is an "assault weapon", does NOT make it so.

Every state that has done so, uses cosmetics to describe them which has NOTHING to do with the capabilities of the gun itself.


"We are in a war zone and we may be losing battles and the war." So in your mind the private citizen should have a LESS effective gun then the one your are fighting!
 
Old 08-07-2019, 10:47 AM
 
38,084 posts, read 16,479,595 times
Reputation: 8653
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Outlaw gun ownership in Chicago?

Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 278
Shot & Wounded: 1365
Total Shot: 1643
Total Homicides: 305

But Chicago's shootings aren't Trump's fault but El Paso's is?
" but El Paso's is?"

I hear beto flapping his gums again trying to shift the blame and what did HE do as Mayor to stop this type of thing from happening.

Dems NEVER take ANY responsibility for their actions and NON actions!
 
Old 08-07-2019, 10:49 AM
 
10,224 posts, read 4,774,682 times
Reputation: 5657
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
You have a valid point there. If you look at other countries you will see that these mass shootings are not part of their society, yet, epidemic here. Why do you think that is? Crazy people exist in every city around the globe, yet, there is no mass shootings. Could it be because there is strict common sense gun legislation/regulation? My guess is yes. Research Australia's laws, and what New Zealand did after their mass shooting. It goes beyond empty thoughts and prayers.
Very few in New Zealand turned in their guns, same in Australia. There is a huge black market in Australia for semi-auto rifles right now.
 
Old 08-07-2019, 10:49 AM
 
67,206 posts, read 30,851,624 times
Reputation: 8827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Do you just deflect or do you have any ideas as the thread states?
I can see the point of my post flew right over your head.

There are laws against DUI and texting while driving, etc., but there are still MANY TIMES more deaths related to both than there are deaths in mass shootings.

The 20,000+ gun control laws already don't stop firearm homicides.

Laws don't work because criminals don't obey them, only the law-abiding do.
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