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Old 08-06-2019, 06:43 AM
 
165 posts, read 16,556 times
Reputation: 93

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Guns are an easy way to kill yourself
No one wants to sacrifice their rights because some people will choose to kill themselves. If you choose to kill yourself that's your business - not mine. I don't consider it a tragedy, I don't consider it something that government should legislate to reduce. It's your life, end it if you want.

Quote:
, which is one of the reasons why US Suicides are up in many states but down in many pther countries.
You say that as if it's conclusively proven. Why do you think suicide is tied to firearms? Firearms are a mean to kill yourself but if the suicidal person has no access to firearms they can easily find something else. Like pills or hanging.

Scandinavia and Japan have higher rates of suicide than the USA, and far more restrictive gun laws. Suicidal people find a way.

Quote:
As for murder rates they are substantial whether black or white and in terms of the prolific gun massacres they are not being carried out by blacks or other ethnic groups.
Murder rates are only substantial in the Black inner city communities. White people in the USA have murder rates in line with the rest of Europe.

Quote:
The main debate is about reducing weapons used in certain gun massacres, the same weapons legialated against in other countries after similar massacres.
Well, to pass those regulations you first need to pass an amendment to the US constitution. That requires either 2/3 of state legislators to ratify it or 2/3s of the House+Senate to ratify it. Good luck.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,988 posts, read 5,568,946 times
Reputation: 8478
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
The U.S. govt has manpower and weapons that no home arsenal would stand a chance against.
This concept of defending yourself from the government is a freaking joke.
Not necessarily for one might make it a Bosnia situation.

Can we win? Probably not but for those who started the fight, it could get rather expensive.

A and B.

A: Better to die on your feet as a free man than live on your knees as a slave.

B: What was it Mulder said? When I shoot, I tend to hit low.?
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:09 AM
 
Location: MS
4,293 posts, read 4,104,399 times
Reputation: 1496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
That is a pretty rare event.
But like a house fire, the outcome can be catastrophic if you are not prepared.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:11 AM
 
Location: USA
18,596 posts, read 9,133,392 times
Reputation: 13971
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
No one wants to sacrifice their rights because some people will choose to kill themselves. If you choose to kill yourself that's your business - not mine. I don't consider it a tragedy, I don't consider it something that government should legislate to reduce. It's your life, end it if you want.



You say that as if it's conclusively proven. Why do you think suicide is tied to firearms? Firearms are a mean to kill yourself but if the suicidal person has no access to firearms they can easily find something else. Like pills or hanging.

Scandinavia and Japan have higher rates of suicide than the USA, and far more restrictive gun laws. Suicidal people find a way.



Murder rates are only substantial in the Black inner city communities. White people in the USA have murder rates in line with the rest of Europe.



Well, to pass those regulations you first need to pass an amendment to the US constitution. That requires either 2/3 of state legislators to ratify it or 2/3s of the House+Senate to ratify it. Good luck.

Thank you. All correct. You saved me a lot of typing.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:20 AM
 
30,075 posts, read 16,614,198 times
Reputation: 13987
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I don't need a reason to own anything.
Bears repeating.
Mods, lock the thread.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,231 posts, read 2,830,763 times
Reputation: 4457
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
It's outlined quite clearly in the Bill of Needs


/Thread


/All future threads on the subject.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:54 AM
 
5,167 posts, read 2,273,558 times
Reputation: 4060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
The government lies to us on a daily basis. I found that out when I got back from Vietnam. How far will they go, I have no idea. But I certainly don't trust them.
that makes two of us....
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:17 AM
 
7,115 posts, read 2,585,014 times
Reputation: 3879
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
The U.S. govt has manpower and weapons that no home arsenal would stand a chance against.

This concept of defending yourself from the government is a freaking joke.
The US government outsources their monopoly on force and violence to a paid, volunteer mercenary force. A weapon does not fire itself. A tank does not drive/fire itself. A plane does not fly itself. PEOPLE do all that.

"People" require water, food and sleep at the very least to remain operational. You do realize government doesn't plant/grow/harvest/process/transport food, right? Their "people" procure food from...from...anyone....oh yeah, those they would oppress.The same goes for all of their material, ammunition, etc. They have a current supply, but after that, no means of manufacture without the folks they plan to terrorize. Supply lines as vast and complex as ours would be shockingly easy to disrupt via an inerior, well motivated insurgency.

And oh yeah, the "people" they would employ as their agents of tyranny are sentient beings who are all volunteers, not mindless automatons who do whatever a politician says. Sapping the morale of a unit, especially one that is operating under illegal and immoral terms, is not particularly difficult. Insurgents have been doing it to better armed and larger armies for millennia.

Finally, you both make and miss the point I repeatedly post about how fragile this entire system of governance is, particularly in a country so well armed and equipped independent from its own government. The whole thing is based on faith in that thing. 535 morons with a lot of money and charisma get to rule 330 million people. There is no way that happens without those 300 million people having faith and belief in the "right" and the efficacy of that setup. Take away that faith and what do you have? You have 330 million people who are 100% of the means of all production, and armed, and now in no mood to listen to what 535 jackasses in DC have to say about anything. Taking the morale away from their hired thugs would be a relatively simple matter, and easily accomplished with small arms.

Your second sentence above makes the point about that faith while missing the point entirely. You are that faith, loud and proud. I am the absence of it. Let government go tyrant on us, and not much more than they already are, and more people become me while fewer remain you. The loss of that faith will snowball, as it does in any revolutionary setting, and the apple cart gets overturned. But you still believe, and there's no shaking the faith of some people. Even King George III had a large population of colonial loyalists who clung to their belief all the way until Cornwallis sent his lackey out to surrender. You seem properly loyalist to Leviathan, but loyalists aren't always on the right side of history.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:38 AM
 
5,368 posts, read 2,026,113 times
Reputation: 3014
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuakerBaker View Post
Many people say that we need the right to own weapons such as an AK47 so that we can protect ourselves from an abusive government.

I would argue that this is not true.

1...Our military takes an oath to defend the constitution or in other words the rights of the people. In Nazi Germany they took an oath to Hitler, etc...not the rights of the people. Our military is staffed by good people overall who hold the protection of the constitution in high value.
Laws that allow us to protect ourselves from hostile individuals and groups ensure our freedom, not ahistorical reliance on supposedely good people. Soldiers are funded and therefore effectively controlled by anyone who would be in control.

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2...In similar countries with similar constitutional values like France, the UK, Australia....which have reduced gun rights...you don't see an oppressive government beating up the people. Because as above, the military would turn on the government if it ever did that.
The governments oppressive actions during the Yellow Vest protests prove you wrong, as does the encroaching restriction of freedom of speech in Europe.

Quote:
3...The military has high tech weapons and vehicles...an AK47 wouldn't be effective for fighting against that either.
Resistance is resistance, given a tyrant. As foreign leaders have long commented, gun ownership in the US is also a deterrent against foreign invasion of the US. Tanks and high tech weapons require complicated logistics chains that break down over long periods and the vast expanse of the United States. We'll take our chances.

Quote:
4...The same reason that many don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons is the same reason that many don't want anyone to have AK47s. The more weapons of mass destruction out there the more likely they are to fall into wrong hands and be used for evil.
Your thought fails the moral test when it compares the American people to Iran. Also rifles are not weapons of mass destruction, by formal definition.

You won't even start a real discussion on this nation giving up its semi automatic rifles until the historically mass genocidal, communist, internationalist threat in this nation is no more. Second, you will need to quell small group murder rates and crime to the levels of the majority. The reality is that the former is fast rising and the latter is not decreasing. People are going to keep their rifles. Your campaign is dead before it has begun.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:54 AM
 
10,477 posts, read 6,367,971 times
Reputation: 5865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Civilians never had such easy access to this amount of firepower, why do they need these types of weapons.

Yes we have, since around the late 60's. One could even order rifles from the Sear's catalog and have them delivered. All these weapons have been around for 50 years or more and now they are the issue ? BS !
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