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Old Today, 07:42 AM
 
10,062 posts, read 4,716,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
What happened to the school in Parkland?
Failure of the police. They were warned 39 times about the shooter in advance and chose to do nothing.
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Old Today, 07:43 AM
 
30,235 posts, read 15,711,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Arms is not defined, nor limited to "small arms"
If it is not specific, it is left to the peoples liberty to choose for themselves.
I'm just trying to discuss with Mircea the restrictions he feels are inherent in the second.
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Old Today, 07:50 AM
 
7,121 posts, read 2,590,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Yeah right. How did that work out for the religious sect Branch Davidians in Waco?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
The Branch Davidians did not have single shot, recoilless smoothbore anti-material weapons at their disposal, so bringing that example of bald faced tyranny up serves no purpose.

The only reason the tyranny of the federal government was allowed to emerge victorious during their "siege" of a bunch of families is because they won the propaganda war and had control of a narrative. Nobody came to the defense of the Branch Davidians because they were weirdo religious fruitcakes, thus Leviathan looked like the benevolent do-gooder in that event because they were making icky weirdo people go away.

Your example proves my oft made point that most of the government's real power lies not in its strength of arms, but the belief of the citizen in the government's supremacy, and the fear that comes from that belief. The ATF and the FBI brought nothing more serious to bear against the Branch Davidians than a couple 50 cals and very light mechanized armor. Had the BD's been more seriously armed to be able to meet that level of force with a proper response, sure, the FBI would have stepped up their game and reinforced with more bodies and bigger bangs, but the real advantage was that nobody among the citizenry was willing to choose sides with Koresh and Co and actually reinforce the Davidians.

Belief in the bad of the Branch Davidians and belief in the good of Leviathan was what handed Reno her "victory" over a bunch of women and children. Not superiority of firepower. Belief and fear is what allows Leviathan so much power.
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Old Today, 07:52 AM
 
7,121 posts, read 2,590,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Hey NRA and gun fanatics! See what you have created? ^^^
Logically consistent citizens who understand the truest and most severe threat to their individual liberty?
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Old Today, 07:52 AM
 
6,124 posts, read 2,872,743 times
Reputation: 6032
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
For who? People that know nothing about the inter-workings of a firearm?
Design of the trigger, hammer, safety/selector and sear, is all the difference in single fire and rapid fire.


https://www.bayougunrunner.com/FA-BG...-FA_p_771.html
You canít just drop those parts into an AR-15 and make it full auto/select fire.
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Old Today, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Midwest
31,769 posts, read 19,822,353 times
Reputation: 8015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
The Branch Davidians did not have single shot, recoilless smoothbore anti-material weapons at their disposal, so bringing that example of bald faced tyranny up serves no purpose.

The only reason the tyranny of the federal government was allowed to emerge victorious during their "siege" of a bunch of families is because they won the propaganda war and had control of a narrative. Nobody came to the defense of the Branch Davidians because they were weirdo religious fruitcakes, thus Leviathan looked like the benevolent do-gooder in that event because they were making icky weirdo people go away.

Your example proves my oft made point that most of the government's real power lies not in its strength of arms, but the belief of the citizen in the government's supremacy, and the fear that comes from that belief. The ATF and the FBI brought nothing more serious to bear against the Branch Davidians than a couple 50 cals and very light mechanized armor. Had the BD's been more seriously armed to be able to meet that level of force with a proper response, sure, the FBI would have stepped up their game and reinforced with more bodies and bigger bangs, but the real advantage was that nobody among the citizenry was willing to choose sides with Koresh and Co and actually reinforce the Davidians.

Belief in the bad of the Branch Davidians and belief in the good of Leviathan was what handed Reno her "victory" over a bunch of women and children. Not superiority of firepower. Belief and fear is what allows Leviathan so much power.
Not true the Branch Davidians had plenty of high powered firearms.

Quote:
SAN ANTONIO ó A submachine gun here. Two .50-caliber rifles there. More than $90,000 paid for weapons to a gun dealer in Hewitt.

David Koresh and his followers stockpiled weapons in the years before the raid on Mount Carmel, prosecutors in the Branch Davidian trial argued last week. They brought in the witnesses to prove it ómarching into the courtroom some 40 gun and ammunition dealers who described the hundreds of guns, ammunition and parts cultists hoarded.
https://www.wacotrib.com/news/branch...aef00df9b.html
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Old Today, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,955 posts, read 11,384,244 times
Reputation: 38154
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuakerBaker View Post
Many people say that we need the right to own weapons such as an AK47 so that we can protect ourselves from an abusive government.

I would argue that this is not true.


1...Our military takes an oath to defend the constitution or in other words the rights of the people. In Nazi Germany they took an oath to Hitler, etc...not the rights of the people. Our military is staffed by good people overall who hold the protection of the constitution in high value.

2...In similar countries with similar constitutional values like France, the UK, Australia....which have reduced gun rights...you don't see an oppressive government beating up the people. Because as above, the military would turn on the government if it ever did that.

3...The military has high tech weapons and vehicles...an AK47 wouldn't be effective for fighting against that either.

4...The same reason that many don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons is the same reason that many don't want anyone to have AK47s. The more weapons of mass destruction out there the more likely they are to fall into wrong hands and be used for evil.
The people who "have the right to bear these weapons to protect themselves" are living in a fantasy world. First off, the government is not going to suddenly become the enemy of the people, so that we need to protect ourselves from them, and, secondly, this ain't the old west.

I have to wonder how some people can get through life, seeing a conspiracy and a threat behind every tree ! Funny how most of us never worry about dumb stuff like this, and we somehow survive.
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Old Today, 08:22 AM
 
10,062 posts, read 4,716,308 times
Reputation: 5599
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
The people who "have the right to bear these weapons to protect themselves" are living in a fantasy world. First off, the government is not going to suddenly become the enemy of the people, so that we need to protect ourselves from them, and, secondly, this ain't the old west.

I have to wonder how some people can get through life, seeing a conspiracy and a threat behind every tree ! Funny how most of us never worry about dumb stuff like this, and we somehow survive.
Our government has a long history of killing American citizens.
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Old Today, 08:57 AM
 
30,235 posts, read 15,711,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Our government has a long history of killing American citizens.
And a very recent history of being complicit in the torture and death of people in other countries by their governments without any due process.
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Old Today, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,375 posts, read 1,955,041 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Hey NRA and gun fanatics! See what you have created? ^^^
Not Real Activists Negotiating Rights Away is a gun control organization. They in no way represent gun ownership rights.
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