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Old 08-08-2019, 03:08 PM
 
124 posts, read 12,480 times
Reputation: 71

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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
The militia they envisioned (no matter which flavor) was clearly not intended to be the entire population.
Yes, but the 2nd amendment they envisioned clearly envisioned all the people, without qualifications, which was how they worded it. You seem to not be able to distinguish between the purpose clause of the amendment and the actual provisions for which to achieve it. I'm not sure if this is simply dishonesty on your party or failure of your teachers back in grade school.

Either way, use this sentence as guidance:

"A healthy fit population, being necessary to the wellbeing of a free State, the right of the people to enjoy cheap healthy food options shall not be infringed."

The purpose = A healthy fit population
The provision to achieve it=granting the people access to cheap healthy food.

This does not mean that only healthy people will have access to healthy food.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:12 PM
 
Location: El paso,tx
2,226 posts, read 845,983 times
Reputation: 3577
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And let's not forget it was the head of the Republican Party who told born & bred American citizens to "go back to where they came from". But I guess you'd rather conveniently ignore the facts that expose self-righteous blather as the nonsense it is, eh?
He said go back where you came from, fix their problems and then you can come back and show us how to do it.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:24 PM
 
Location: El paso,tx
2,226 posts, read 845,983 times
Reputation: 3577
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
There are 100 kids a year killed in accidental drownings in pools.
There are 1300 kids killed in accidental gun incidents.
Drownings. According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC): 350 children under the age of five drown in pools each year nationwide. The majority of the deaths occur in June, July and August; most in backyard pools.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...0rApET&ampcf=1

This is only pools and spas and up to age 5. Add in all drownings up to age 18 and it is well above shooting deaths.

You need to compare apples to apples.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:25 PM
 
24,504 posts, read 12,110,010 times
Reputation: 10433
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
You aren't going to enjoy any "profits" from gun sales. You are not fooling anyone.
Whatever you say, slick.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
9,129 posts, read 2,803,422 times
Reputation: 7025
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
Yes, but the 2nd amendment they envisioned clearly envisioned all the people, without qualifications, which was how they worded it.
I just explained that it wasn't, and even gave a link to Alexander Hamilton explaining the whole thing, and you just repeat what I just debunked!

Quote:
You seem to not be able to distinguish between the purpose clause of the amendment and the actual provisions for which to achieve it. I'm not sure if this is simply dishonesty on your party or failure of your teachers back in grade school.

Either way, use this sentence as guidance:

"A healthy fit population, being necessary to the wellbeing of a free State, the right of the people to enjoy cheap healthy food options shall not be infringed."

The purpose = A healthy fit population
The provision to achieve it=granting the people access to cheap healthy food.

This does not mean that only healthy people will have access to healthy food.
Your example actually supports my position: You have linked the purpose to the provision to achieve it. Thus, the purpose of enabling people to keep and bear arms is because it is necessary for a militia - security of the state:

Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The preamble explains that the right exists because it is necessary for the security of the state, NOT to protect the security of each individual - which is the reason gun rights advocates always seem to ignore it (though of course they would't admit it). Since the right exists to protect the security of the state and NOT to enable individuals to protect themselves, it is OK to do whatever one wants regarding people who want guns NOT used for any kind of militia or state/nation security purposes. Since the purpose of gun ownership is to enable security of the state, only people engaged in some sort of military security of the state have the right to bear arms.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:29 PM
 
24,504 posts, read 12,110,010 times
Reputation: 10433
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
I just explained that it wasn't, and even gave a link to Alexander Hamilton explaining the whole thing, and you just repeat what I just debunked!


Your example actually supports my position: You have linked the purpose to the provision to achieve it. Thus, the purpose of enabling people to keep and bear arms is because it is necessary for a militia - security of the state:



The preamble explains that the right exists because it is necessary for the security of the state, NOT to protect the security of each individual - which is the reason gun rights advocates always seem to ignore it (though of course they would't admit it). Since the right exists to protect the security of the state and NOT to enable individuals to protect themselves, it is OK to do whatever one wants regarding people who want guns NOT used for any kind of militia or state/nation security purposes. Since the purpose of gun ownership is to enable security of the state, only people engaged in some sort of military security of the state have the right to bear arms.
Unfortunately for you, SCOTUS disagrees with you as did George Mason. Read the Federalist Papers.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
9,129 posts, read 2,803,422 times
Reputation: 7025
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Unfortunately for you, SCOTUS disagrees with you as did George Mason. Read the Federalist Papers.
Uhh ... you need to read what I just wrote above.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:34 PM
 
24,504 posts, read 12,110,010 times
Reputation: 10433
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
Uhh ... you need to read what I just wrote above.
I did and most disagreed with Hamilton.
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Old 08-08-2019, 04:14 PM
 
124 posts, read 12,480 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
The preamble explains that the right exists because it is necessary for the security of the state, NOT to protect the security of each individual - which is the reason gun rights advocates always seem to ignore it (though of course they would't admit it). Since the right exists to protect the security of the state and NOT to enable individuals to protect themselves, it is OK to do whatever one wants regarding people who want guns NOT used for any kind of militia or state/nation security purposes. Since the purpose of gun ownership is to enable security of the state, only people engaged in some sort of military security of the state have the right to bear arms.
The purpose of the right is attempting to achieve is irrelevant in the debate of who the right extends to. The provisions of the right is important. The provisions of the right is "the people" without qualifications to their membership in the militia. If you think the provisions no longer achieve the purpose, you need to pass another amendment.
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Old 08-08-2019, 04:18 PM
 
9,910 posts, read 4,683,119 times
Reputation: 5559
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
They are more dangerous than mass shootings, no matter how you try to spin in. The number of people killed in mass shootings in this country is very small compared to the number of people murdered, killed in car accidents, killed by medical mistakes, killed by drowning or even compared to the number of people shot in Chicago every year.
Last I saw, the number killed by medical mistakes was around 250,000 a year.
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