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Old Today, 05:43 AM
 
1,774 posts, read 606,101 times
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"Consumers will pay for the tariffs" is the left wing version of "consumers will pay for higher wages" spewed by the right. Theoretically both could be true, but empirically neither is true now. They're both rhetoric dressed up with economic theory and not verified with data.
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Old Today, 05:50 AM
 
37,551 posts, read 16,286,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
I continue to see posters claiming the tariffs on China are being paid by the US consumer & wanted to put that fallacy to bed. The data shows that is not the case at all and in fact prices on imports from China have dropped since the tariffs were enacted. You can argue farmers have been impacted (they have), or that prices on some specific items may have gone up (they have), but the gloom & doom predictions by the corporate, financial pundits that the US consumer would pay the tariffs in the form of higher prices, is plainly incorrect.

"Imports by Locality of Origin: The price index for imports from China edged down 0.1 percent in May following a 0.2-percent drop the previous month. Import prices from China have not recorded a monthly advance since the index rose 0.1 percent in May 2018. Prices for imports from China declined 1.4 percent over the past year, the largest 12-month drop since a 1.6-percent decrease in February 2017."

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ximpim.nr0.htm
"You can argue farmers have been impacted (they have), or that prices on some specific items may have gone up (they have),"

If the same people complaining today were alive many years go they would have complained when the railroad engine was brought to America, "it will hurt stage coach drivers.

When the car was introduced to America, "we can't have them it will replace the wagon makers an blacksmiths, etc,

The typewriter replaced he pen, the computer replaced the typewrite, modern electronics replaced the telephone operator and on and on and on.

NOTHING is done that does not "HURT" someone in the short term. We have to balance the small number hurt by the LARGE number HELPED and the long range outcomes.

Most complaining do so through party politics lenses.
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Old Today, 06:10 AM
 
37,551 posts, read 16,286,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Don't be silly. Of course the consumer will pay.

It will take a while as many contracts are still in force and very few tariffs have actually been paid. When I was in bi I often sold product for a year or two at the lower prices because I already had it in the warehouse....

If any of this becomes normalized the consumer will pay. But in many cases the companies just skirt the tariffs...there are plenty of ways to do so.

Repeat your conclusion once we have a year AFTER all the extra 40 Billion in tariffs are collected. Of course, if the economy continues to be weak goods will be cheaper even if companies have to lose money on them.....corporations don't just fold when they have to lose money.

But that money will ALSO be paid by us...in the forms of lower stock prices and lower dividends and fewer jobs on this end of the equation (imported stuff creates a lot of jobs as it works through the economy).
On the flip side WHY are we buying so much foreign made goods?

Maybe the unions got too strong and caused prices to go up to pay the unions demands.

Maybe the taxes went up to pay the public employees to keep up with the unions.

The ONLY reason companies left the U.S is because it became CHEAPER then to keep them here.

Some say it was "greed". some say it was because companies here could NOT continue to pay the higher cost of going business here and stay in business.

Are the farmers being "greedy" by producing MORE then BEFORE China started buying from them?

Were they making a decent living producing what they did and wanted MORE?

Then foreign companies,starting with Japan, started selling their products her cheaper then American made products.

The people complaining are the same one who BUY FOREIGN MADE products. Maybe they are really the "greedy" ones.

Don't buy Chinese made products and they will not keep sending stuff here.

Many DON'T realize America is STILL the No. 2 manufacturing company in the world.

Start buying American made, even if it costs a little, more and put China with its cheap junk, and the other Asian counties out of business. It is THAT simple!
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Old Today, 06:24 AM
 
8,107 posts, read 4,451,257 times
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CNY to USD tells the story of Chinese imports becoming cheaper as a result of currency manipulation...resulting in the negation of tariffs.

https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/USD...e-history.html
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Old Today, 08:31 AM
 
10,934 posts, read 10,968,166 times
Reputation: 5376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
I continue to see posters claiming the tariffs on China are being paid by the US consumer & wanted to put that fallacy to bed. The data shows that is not the case at all and in fact prices on imports from China have dropped since the tariffs were enacted. You can argue farmers have been impacted (they have), or that prices on some specific items may have gone up (they have), but the gloom & doom predictions by the corporate, financial pundits that the US consumer would pay the tariffs in the form of higher prices, is plainly incorrect.

"Imports by Locality of Origin: The price index for imports from China edged down 0.1 percent in May following a 0.2-percent drop the previous month. Import prices from China have not recorded a monthly advance since the index rose 0.1 percent in May 2018. Prices for imports from China declined 1.4 percent over the past year, the largest 12-month drop since a 1.6-percent decrease in February 2017."

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ximpim.nr0.htm
You must be a leftist who doesn't understand how tariffs work. Go back to your Bernie rally
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Old Today, 08:36 AM
 
5,363 posts, read 2,849,179 times
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So a few things... For many goods retailers will hold a 90 day inventory of goods to support demand thus tariffs inacted 2 months ago have not seen pricing pressures hit for what is ready to be sold. Many retailers are in the process of marking up their goods this quarter by 10-30% depending on their ability to absorb the margin hit and the associated price elasticity.
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Old Today, 08:40 AM
 
23,626 posts, read 12,471,766 times
Reputation: 7512
OP isn't thinking this through.

First and foremost, the importer pays the tariff -- ALWAYS.
Second, whether or not the added cost of is then passed on to consumers will not show up in the price of the import.

Simply put -- if a Chinese doll costs $2.00 to import and there is a tariff of 15 per cent on that doll. The importer pays 2.00 plus the 50 cents. for the doll....2.30.

Now if the price of that doll drops by one percent --- that doll price is now 1.98. Since then the US has tacked on 10 per cent more tariffs......so the tariff is 25 per cent now. The total cost of the doll is now around $2.47 (rounded down).

So China's price index is down by 1.6 per cent...but because the American govt. has imposed an increased TAX on the doll...it costs more for the importer.

So what if China is getting less money if we are paying more money.

AND we aren't reducing the amt. of goods being imported.
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Old Today, 08:42 AM
 
23,626 posts, read 12,471,766 times
Reputation: 7512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
"Consumers will pay for the tariffs" is the left wing version of "consumers will pay for higher wages" spewed by the right. Theoretically both could be true, but empirically neither is true now. They're both rhetoric dressed up with economic theory and not verified with data.
No it is common business sense.

The tariffs become part of the cost of goods and the business that imports the goods will want to keep their profits steady.
.
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Old Today, 08:44 AM
 
23,626 posts, read 12,471,766 times
Reputation: 7512
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/13/this...get-worse.html
The tariffs enacted so far in the trade battle with China have already raised the prices of goods in affected industries much more than the overall rate of inflation, made clearly visible in this chart from Goldman Sachs.
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Old Today, 08:47 AM
 
23,626 posts, read 12,471,766 times
Reputation: 7512
And Trump is right -- China needs to change how it does things.

Folks aren't disagreeing with the fact there are issues with China and its currency manipulation to control its exports.......

It is the methodology being used to negotiate with China and its effectiveness that is being questioned.

AND the false statements, misinformation that Trump has been giving with all the rants about trade and tariffs.

And remember a trade deficit is not necessarily a symptom of a bad economy. It's not that simple.
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