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Old Today, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
14,868 posts, read 9,210,719 times
Reputation: 9927

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
So we have no choice but to keep on buying made in China goods?

Please..
Yes there are options. But they are costly. And even those items that are “MADE” here have parts from other places in the world. Take a refrigerator for example. The screws might come from China while the fan shrouds might come from Mexico. I work a full time job in a plastic company we make plastic parts for different things as I mentioned above. However the machines are all made overseas. It’s not as simple as you think it is.
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Old Today, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,864 posts, read 11,330,722 times
Reputation: 38047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
I continue to see posters claiming the tariffs on China are being paid by the US consumer & wanted to put that fallacy to bed. The data shows that is not the case at all and in fact prices on imports from China have dropped since the tariffs were enacted. You can argue farmers have been impacted (they have), or that prices on some specific items may have gone up (they have), but the gloom & doom predictions by the corporate, financial pundits that the US consumer would pay the tariffs in the form of higher prices, is plainly incorrect.

"Imports by Locality of Origin: The price index for imports from China edged down 0.1 percent in May following a 0.2-percent drop the previous month. Import prices from China have not recorded a monthly advance since the index rose 0.1 percent in May 2018. Prices for imports from China declined 1.4 percent over the past year, the largest 12-month drop since a 1.6-percent decrease in February 2017."

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ximpim.nr0.htm



You really do not have any idea how the world of manufacturing, distribution, and financial involvement in those two works, do you ?


Let me make it simple for you. The manufacturer (or manufacturing country) can only absorb so much, then they pass it on to the exporters, who in turn pass it on to the distributors, who in turn pass it on to the wholesalers, who in turn pass it on to the retailers, and (guess who is at the bottom of the food chain) WE, the consumers ultimately pay the increased prices.


It has always been this way, always WILL be this way, and is simply manufacturing/distribution 101. China isn't going to just sit there and say " Ok, we will make less on this 99 cent item " they will do 2 things, they will pass along the increase and also look for other market countries who are not hitting them with tariffs.


If you think it works any other way, you have the same simplistic understanding of economics and finance as does a certain orange guy with bad hair. We are already seeing increased prices on a lot of items at the stores, and this is only the beginning.
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Old Today, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,864 posts, read 11,330,722 times
Reputation: 38047
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
So we have no choice but to keep on buying made in China goods?

Please..



You are forgetting one very important fact, we not only IMPORT, we EXPORT. If we start screwing around with what they sell us, guess what they are going to do with regards to what we send them ? Watch what happens to our manufacturers when their foreign markets start drying up.


We do not hold all the cards here, or have other countries over the barrel Trump thinks we do. Our economy is directly linked to every other country on the planet. Trump only knows buying and selling real estate, he is woefully lacking in education in (among other things) world finance.


No tariff plan has ever worked........ever, and it isn't going to work this time either.
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Old Today, 11:26 AM
 
718 posts, read 381,851 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
That poster follows manufacturing as an economic indicator.
Go figure.
Correct.

I would add it's not just manufacturing that is weak. According to the payroll survey, small businesses have actually seen a decline in jobs in recent months. Small businesses account for over 99% of the firms in the United States and over 60% of the jobs created during the economic recovery, which by the way is the weakest in recent history. Real estate is also struggling, one economist I follow even says it's in retraction and has been for a few quarters now.

The 2.1% GDP number we got for Q2 of 2019 is the weakest since Q4 of 2016. The weak 2.1% number is driven primarily by government and consumer spending. Both of these things are driven by credit and debt.

In 2016, Donald Trump criticized Barack Obama for the state of the U.S. economy. The U.S. economy isn't any better today than it was in 2016. In fact, for manufacturing and housing, it may be worse.
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Old Today, 11:34 AM
 
8,964 posts, read 3,982,514 times
Reputation: 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
You really do not have any idea how the world of manufacturing, distribution, and financial involvement in those two works, do you ?


Let me make it simple for you. The manufacturer (or manufacturing country) can only absorb so much, then they pass it on to the exporters, who in turn pass it on to the distributors, who in turn pass it on to the wholesalers, who in turn pass it on to the retailers, and (guess who is at the bottom of the food chain) WE, the consumers ultimately pay the increased prices.


It has always been this way, always WILL be this way, and is simply manufacturing/distribution 101. China isn't going to just sit there and say " Ok, we will make less on this 99 cent item " they will do 2 things, they will pass along the increase and also look for other market countries who are not hitting them with tariffs.


If you think it works any other way, you have the same simplistic understanding of economics and finance as does a certain orange guy with bad hair. We are already seeing increased prices on a lot of items at the stores, and this is only the beginning.
China is still absorbing.
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Old Today, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,864 posts, read 11,330,722 times
Reputation: 38047
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92 View Post
Correct.

I would add it's not just manufacturing that is weak. According to the payroll survey, small businesses have actually seen a decline in jobs in recent months. Small businesses account for over 99% of the firms in the United States and over 60% of the jobs created during the economic recovery, which by the way is the weakest in recent history. Real estate is also struggling, one economist I follow even says it's in retraction and has been for a few quarters now.

The 2.1% GDP number we got for Q2 of 2019 is the weakest since Q4 of 2016. The weak 2.1% number is driven primarily by government and consumer spending. Both of these things are driven by credit and debt.

In 2016, Donald Trump criticized Barack Obama for the state of the U.S. economy. The U.S. economy isn't any better today than it was in 2016. In fact, for manufacturing and housing, it may be worse.



Bingo, the rise we saw in job creation has peaked, and we are starting to see a downturn. Even the company I work for is cutting back on experienced, older workers and replacing them with part time high school kids.



We knew this bubble would not last forever, and it is starting to burst slightly.
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Old Today, 12:36 PM
 
15,882 posts, read 4,194,571 times
Reputation: 11324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Economy continues to be weak?
Car sales down. House sales even or down.
Market nowhere for almost two years.
Manufacturing indicators at a 10 year low.
Car loan defaults so high that the Fed itself worries.
Fed claims it needs to lower rates to near zero (or below!) to make anyone buy anything.....

My guess is you consider these things "fantastic". Or in the words of someone with getter grammar

very good (that means horrible)
very very good (that means just poor)
very very very good, fantastic (that might mean "fair" or something else.
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Old Today, 12:51 PM
 
10,942 posts, read 10,968,166 times
Reputation: 5376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Economy continues to be weak?
Gdp was recently announced to be 2.1% vs 3-4% trump promised

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/26/74554...r-takes-a-toll

Absolutely pathetic
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Old Today, 12:56 PM
 
Location: sumter
8,785 posts, read 5,462,236 times
Reputation: 6694
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
drama queens create drama
And conservatives know all about drama, we been seen it played out daily with administration. Thanks for reminding us.
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Old Today, 12:58 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,537 posts, read 632,057 times
Reputation: 1111
This is a question of tax incidence, which is something economists are very good at answering with supply/demand analysis. The short answer is that the burden is shared by both supplier (China) and consumers (Americans). Also of course by the companies engaged in importing from China.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxv...nd-who-pays-it

Quote:
There is lots of economic theory about the effect of tariffs on consumption and prices. After all, tariffs are hardly new and economists since Adam Smith have been writing about their problems for centuries.
In the short run, higher prices for imported goods will reduce consumption of those goods. But in the longer term, the decline in competition from foreign products makes domestic firms less efficient. And less competition will result in higher prices, not just for those goods subject to the tariff but for competing goods that are not—such as those made domestically. In the case of Trump’s tariffs on China, that means US consumers will pay somewhat higher prices. Thus, not only will the price of Chinese TVs rise, but so will the price of Mexican TVs and US-made TVs (yes, there still are a few).
In the case of Trump’s tariffs, US prices will rise but not by much and US demand will decline but not by much. Chinese exports to the US will fall but most likely be replaced by imports from producers of competing products in other countries.
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