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Old 08-14-2019, 03:51 PM
 
1,544 posts, read 2,508,319 times
Reputation: 863

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
As a long time Floridian (originally from NM) the/our greatest fear is Florida becomes the next California. There's a pattern and it troubles me. Texas is also facing the same pattern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
That is really odd. I've lived in FL for decades and never ever heard one single person mention that, nevermind being worried about it. Perhaps it is your greatest fear, but please don't speak for the rest of us.

Floridians have much bigger problems to worry about such as rising waters, polluted waterways and an overabundance of guns in the hands of a-holes and the mentally ill.
It's about politics. There's a reason why the Florida government is trying to make it harder to implement the voting amendment that passed last November.

I ran across this article about Texas.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/polit...ins/index.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Too late. It already can take 4+ hours to drive the 1.75 hours to Orlando from Tampa.
Which is exactly why I thought it was crazy that St. Pete/Clearwater was advertising itself as 90 minutes from Orlando. They own the domains BeachesOfOrlando dot com and PlayasDeOrlando dot com. However, it looks like they changed it to 90 miles. I guess it was 90 minutes if you're leaving from US 27 and I-4 (Davenport?) or driving in the middle of the night.




Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
I would never move anywhere due to tax policy...as an individual. There may be corporate benefits or other reasons....but, in the end, the difference (example) between a normal 8 to 10% stock market return and the 5% we've seen for the last two decades would dwarf the "tax game" wins and losses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
What does state taxes have to do with stock market return? Staying in a high tax state doesn't mean you get 10% return instead of 5% return nor does moving to a low tax state mean you drop from a 10% return to 5%.
I think they are saying that they can could out-earn in the market what they would save in taxes moving somewhere else.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:13 PM
 
10,161 posts, read 4,761,491 times
Reputation: 13282
Quote:
Originally Posted by boy3365 View Post
I think they are saying that they can could out-earn in the market what they would save in taxes moving somewhere else.

And what do you think the one has to do with the other? You can do both. If you can invest wisely with what's left over from high state taxes then you could do the same with the larger amount left over from low state taxes and earn even more!
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:24 PM
Status: "Hard work is never easy" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
3,104 posts, read 4,451,224 times
Reputation: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
The state has double the crime rate of many....

Are you saying it would be 4X as high if it wasn't for all the guns?
Crime rate is concentrated in urban areas. Keep in mind Florida has an additional 30,000,000 people who visit every year. Lots of transients who take up residents in dem controlled urban area.

Much like Texas.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:59 PM
 
7,802 posts, read 2,780,377 times
Reputation: 3078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Crime rate is concentrated in urban areas. Keep in mind Florida has an additional 30,000,000 people who visit every year. Lots of transients who take up residents in dem controlled urban area.

Much like Texas.
It the beach towns predominantly that swell during snow bird season not the big cities. Anyone who lives in Florida knows that.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:13 PM
Status: "Hard work is never easy" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
3,104 posts, read 4,451,224 times
Reputation: 1782
lol... does Disney sound like a beach town?

Clearly one of us doesn't live there...
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:47 AM
 
38,161 posts, read 16,494,357 times
Reputation: 8669
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
I would never move anywhere due to tax policy...as an individual. There may be corporate benefits or other reasons....but, in the end, the difference (example) between a normal 8 to 10% stock market return and the 5% we've seen for the last two decades would dwarf the "tax game" wins and losses.

Maybe its the "Bogle" in me...having top health care and people (community) who aren't temporary is preferable to me to saving a few bucks on taxes. I also am spoiled when it comes to traffic. I don't do it. I worked 5 miles from my house for most of my life and then from home. In 12 years I don't think I've been in a traffic jam (in rural New England) more than can be counted on one hand.

I enjoy, for now, wintering in Florida and will continue if the Red Tide and other such things don't drive me away. But there is a difference between living and working somewhere and "wintering" there.

I wish there were some perfect places but most got too crowded long ago...
"would never move anywhere due to tax policy...as an individual."
LOTS of people move South after retirement because they can no longer afford the high taxes in their Northern states.


I live in one of the fastest growing counties in the nation mostly dude to retirees moving down. Their NO.1 reason given is the high taxes, mostly property taxes, from $10,000 to $15,000 a year to several HUNDRED
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:54 AM
 
38,161 posts, read 16,494,357 times
Reputation: 8669
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Life has to do with Life.
What I am saying is that - at various times in my life - my accountant and other people have told me how much money I would save by moving my domicile to Florida. True - I would have saved money, especially when I sold a company built up over decades.

My point is that what matters is not what you pay in taxes....but what you keep in the end. I have seen a lot of people make bad decisions to "save money" such as taking larger loans (deductions), buying more expensive cars and trucks (SUV tax credits) and even moving to other states.

IMHO, they don't end up better off. It's the tortoise and the hare. My sister may have saved taxes moving to FL, but when she went to work as a teacher with a Masters for 29K and lousy benefits, any savings went out the window.

It's a matter of longer term thinking....IMHO.

Those who are fairly broke aren't going to pay much in taxes in any case (Florida or otherwise), so they have no big reason to move domicile. Those who make a lot of money (Wall Streeters, Silicon Valley, Boston top biotech, etc.) make enough that they don't sit around thinking about how they can save a few thousand a year.

Also, the very nature of most income streams is that they rely on JOBS.....and other things which may pay more back in the old neighborhood.

These are all related when it comes to taxes. If taxes are so important, why aren't themany 10's of trillions off dollars worth of Bay Area companies running to Florida? Answer....well, sorta the same one I gave above.

It's the same old story. In PA we used to drive to NJ to get cheaper booze...but these days if you figure the gas, tolls and time you really aren't saving anything much.

That's just me. As I said, I know people who seem to spend 1/2 their time trying to "save money" by working every trick in the book. Very few of them are well off.

I pay low property taxes in Florida...well, if I add in homeowners insurance they are actually quite a bit higher than in New England (per 100K)....and we get universal health care and better education and lots of other things for our $$.
"My point is that what matters is not what you pay in taxes....but what you keep in the end."

You sister may be better off due the Cost of Living being a LOT LOWER in Fla. then where she was.

A study was done a little while back on how much far $100.00 goes.

NY, NJ etc came in at $80.00.

Just because you make more does NOT always mean you can buy as much.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:59 AM
 
38,161 posts, read 16,494,357 times
Reputation: 8669
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams View Post
I'm leaving soon. The idea that Florida is a low cost state isn't true anymore. No income tax, but property insurance is outrageous and wages are still low. I suppose the run up in housing costs will benefit me but it's pretty hard for someone starting off. Too hot, too crowded, too many scumbags off all income levels.
Cheap doesn't guarantee quality of life and if I have to pay extra taxes to be free of Florida's never ending drama, so be it.
BTW, I've been in Florida since the early 60s.
"I'm leaving soon."


Many people don't stay,


So many in fact, they have created a name for them. Half Backs. The move to Fla from further up North and for whatever reason they don't like it so the move up to Ga. or the Carolinas. "halfway back" to where they come from.
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Venice, FL
2,728 posts, read 1,021,956 times
Reputation: 1936
I think that many that leave are "Half Backs" that just didn't like Florida, but I think more leave Florida as they age, and their health deteriorates. They want to be closer to their families up North who can assist them with their failing health, or natural aging issues.

If you retire to Florida at age 65, live in Florida for 20 years, you're now 85. Many people at 85 no longer drive, so need help to get to Doctor appointments, and to other places. Food is now delivered, so that's no longer an issue. If Doctors made house calls like they used to do long ago, more could stay put in Florida. I have seen some mobile medic vans around Venice Florida that are private businesses that render some level of medical care in patients homes, so maybe that will take off.

Oddly enough, I see very few funeral processions in Florida, and I'm in an area (Venice Florida) with a high median age. I think they return when they can't take care of themselves anymore, or they fear those days are right around the corner.

At that point, they care a lot less about high taxes up North since they no longer work, and are not as likely to be buying real estate that carries high property taxes.

Looking 20 years out in time, what do these high tax States look like? What does Florida look like if this exodus keeps gaining momentum? I guess Cleveland is a good example of what they will look like. Cleveland has lost a lot of their population. Detroit too. I suppose the population in Florida wil push inland towards the center of the State as the coastal areas become overcrowded as they are now in Southeastern Florida.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:04 AM
 
67,261 posts, read 30,873,131 times
Reputation: 8830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"would never move anywhere due to tax policy...as an individual."
LOTS of people move South after retirement because they can no longer afford the high taxes in their Northern states.
Yep. My elderly parents did. The same value home that cost them $5,100/year in real estate tax in IL now costs them $648/year in a retirement community in SC.
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