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Old 08-09-2019, 09:57 AM
 
24,501 posts, read 12,110,010 times
Reputation: 10431

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
I am not a very compassionate person compared to most people, I think, but compared to people who think as you do . . .
Why is it society’s responsibility for those who don’t plan ahead? Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Those that think like you do, pony up and take care of them.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:57 AM
 
Location: SGV
25,173 posts, read 9,810,857 times
Reputation: 9813
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Should have planned for the future. Not society’s position for those who don’t plan properly.
The only way you can be consistent in this statement is to call for the immediate abolishment of forced collectivism which requires things like health care to be maintained & regulated by an involuntary 3rd party (in the form of government).

I'm pretty sure...actually I'm positive...you aren't going to make that leap.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:59 AM
 
9,325 posts, read 2,859,580 times
Reputation: 5648
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Should have planned for the future. Not society’s position for those who don’t plan properly.
How do you know what they planned or didn't plan? Maybe a catastrophic illness wiped them out? Maybe they were in the stock market trying to plan for the future, but got wiped out during the recession. You have no idea what they planned or didn't plan for. It's not all cut and dried like you think it is.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,671 posts, read 52,978,900 times
Reputation: 71081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
You didn't read the article. One was murdered, for one thing. Secondly, uncontrolled medical bills played a role in their demise.
Bc they found bills?

Did the people ever say this word for word?

People are too easily manipulated by headlines.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:03 AM
 
6,973 posts, read 1,482,431 times
Reputation: 17276
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
How do you know what they planned or didn't plan? Maybe a catastrophic illness wiped them out? Maybe they were in the stock market trying to plan for the future, but got wiped out during the recession. You have no idea what they planned or didn't plan for. It's not all cut and dried like you think it is.
Yes, exactly.

Listen, I'm a moderate, but I am very conservative in that I dislike giving any kind of freebies to people who, in my opinion, don't deserve them. (I am not going to be more specific here because I don't want to derail the main point of this thread.)

However, although my husband and I have planned for the future and believe that we will have a comfortable retirement barring any major catastrophe, I am not so smug as to think that everyone in poor circumstances are there because they were just stupid, lazy, or lacking in some personal trait.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:05 AM
 
6,973 posts, read 1,482,431 times
Reputation: 17276
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Bc they found bills?

Did the people ever say this word for word?

People are too easily manipulated by headlines.
Read the article. From the OP's link (my italics):

"Several notes were left citing severe ongoing medical problems with the wife and expressing concerns that the couple did not have sufficient resources to pay for medical care,” the sheriff's statement said.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: SGV
25,173 posts, read 9,810,857 times
Reputation: 9813
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
Yes, exactly.

Listen, I'm a moderate, but I am very conservative in that I dislike giving any kind of freebies to people who, in my opinion, don't deserve it. (I am not going to be more specific here because I don't want to derail the main point of this thread.)

However, although my husband and I have planned for the future and believe that we will have a comfortable retirement barring any major catastrophe, I am not so smug as to think that everyonein poor circumstances are there because they were just stupid, lazy, or lacking in some personal trait.
It may not take a "major catastrophe" either.

When we were touring a nursing home for my father a few years ago the administrator told us that of the 400 people inside just over 90% were on Medicaid. The number who were on Medicaid when they entered the nursing home was under 10%.

Chew on it. Think about it. It's enough to make you go crazy with anger while the sadness puts a hole in your heart.

These weren't "deadbeats" or "poor planners". They were people who, for the most part, worked their whole lives and did all they could to try to prepare for the future.

However, since they had used their 100 (or whatever the number is) Medicare days and in many cases their savings (30, 40, 50 years of work) in sometimes as little as 18 months while in the nursing home they were now destitute.

My mom, who I support, doesn't want any part of it. She's already in her 80s and doesn't want to see me or anyone else lose all they've worked for to keep her alive for a few extra months or even a few years.

So to conclude: F the government. F them big time.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
14,789 posts, read 8,594,669 times
Reputation: 29571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
That's what they SAY, but I'm retired and we take care to keep ourselves well insured. It's not that expensive.
People will find all sorts of reasons to do what they do, and all sorts of people to blame. How long did it take before we heard about "senseless wars" with regard to the root cause of this crime? Yes, murdering one's spouse is a crime.
Except for the fact that having insurance is no guarantee the medical bills are paid. Recently I ended up paying $160 for a medical bill I should have paid nothing for because the billing department was so incompetent they refused to fix it. ($20 for a PCP visit with my designated HMO, and 140 for a tetanus shot that was also covered.) The insurance company told me multiple times I didn't owe it but the billing department refused to fix it. Instead the hospital (Houston Methodist) just sent me to collections and told me they would ruin my credit if I didn't pay. Why should the hospital fix it? They just threaten the patient and get them to pay rather than go to the hassle of fixing their billing. Sure, it's "only" $160, but multiply $160 times millions of patients and hospitals and clinics make a tidy profit without resubmitting and recoding. Then there's the additional problem of insurance not covering enough no matter what. I won't even go into how exorbitant drugs and medical procedures are. We all know. No matter how well insured a person is, it doesn't cover enough at times, especially if the individual has a chronic or rare disease.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:31 AM
 
6,973 posts, read 1,482,431 times
Reputation: 17276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
Except for the fact that having insurance is no guarantee the medical bills are paid. Recently I ended up paying $160 for a medical bill I should have paid nothing for because the billing department was so incompetent they refused to fix it. ($20 for a PCP visit with my designated HMO, and 140 for a tetanus shot that was also covered.) The insurance company told me multiple times I didn't owe it but the billing department refused to fix it. Instead the hospital (Houston Methodist) just sent me to collections and told me they would ruin my credit if I didn't pay. Why should the hospital fix it? They just threaten the patient and get them to pay rather than go to the hassle of taking care of their billing error. Sure, it's "only" $160, but multiply $160 times millions of patients and hospitals and clinics make a tidy profit without even bothering with having to fix their own errors. Then there's the additional problem of insurance not covering enough no matter what. I won't even go into how exorbitant drugs and medical procedures are. We all know. No matter how well insured a person is, it doesn't cover enough at times, especially if the individual has a chronic or rare disease.
Well, that is ANOTHER argument for a mass overhaul of our healthcare system!!!
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:33 AM
 
52,281 posts, read 42,065,345 times
Reputation: 32630
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
It may not take a "major catastrophe" either.

When we were touring a nursing home for my father a few years ago the administrator told us that of the 400 people inside just over 90% were on Medicaid. The number who were on Medicaid when they entered the nursing home was under 10%.

Chew on it. Think about it. It's enough to make you go crazy with anger while the sadness puts a hole in your heart.

These weren't "deadbeats" or "poor planners". They were people who, for the most part, worked their whole lives and did all they could to try to prepare for the future.

However, since they had used their 100 (or whatever the number is) Medicare days and in many cases their savings (30, 40, 50 years of work) in sometimes as little as 18 months while in the nursing home they were now destitute.

My mom, who I support, doesn't want any part of it. She's already in her 80s and doesn't want to see me or anyone else lose all they've worked for to keep her alive for a few extra months or even a few years.

So to conclude: F the government. F them big time.
People are encouraged to spend down their assets or transfer them to their kids etc. which is likely what many of those people did.

So, what do you want from "the govt." in this case? Many of those have no significant assets and don't have family that is able or willing to care for them. Do you want the govt. to take more from Soc. Security and then just make nursing homes paid for regardless of assets?
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