U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,759 posts, read 2,762,277 times
Reputation: 6982

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim View Post
That being said, we do not have a "moral obligation" to help anyone.
Well, there it is in nutshell. Your morality is more sink-or-swim. You encounter that attitude a lot in 3rd world countries and for the life of me I cannot see why America should be more like a 3rd world country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:20 PM
Status: "Time for 25" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Cone of Uncertainty
7,719 posts, read 4,600,838 times
Reputation: 9180
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
The elderly have had decades to plan, save, and build a career. When I got my cancer diagnosis at 23, there was FAR more help available for an elderly person who had 40+ years in the working world to save and establish themselves compared to my 4 months into my first job out of college with the related entry level salary.
In a perfect world that does not exist, that would be great. It's not perfect world and many older people become poor through other factors instead of "planning and saving." One guy I know was doing pretty well. He had a wife and two kids. Both he and his wife worked and had insurance through the work. When Obamacare was introduced, he listened to people saying the government had no business in health care so they decided to keep their insurance through where they worked.

Because this is real life and not a perfect world which you imagined, things went downhill for the man. He and his wife split. She took most of the money out of their joint accounts and left. Within two months of his happening, he began having medical issues that put him in the hospital. Because he had kept his insurance through his employer, after about three weeks of not getting paid -- and thus not paying insurance -- he was dropped from coverage.

Anyone ever priced insurance through COBRA?

That man was me and four years later I am still trying to scrape by. I'm not elderly, but I am closer to elderly than I am to 21-25. Maybe things will work out.God knows I am trying. But it is not such an easy thing as you seem to think. There are a lot of stories out there worse than mine how folks were doing great in life right up to the point where they weren't doing great.

Empathy is not a bad thing.

Last edited by Joe the Photog; 08-09-2019 at 05:55 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Heart of Arabia (No, not Dearborn)
1,445 posts, read 502,896 times
Reputation: 2047
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
This question is the result of the current thread about the elderly couple's murder-suicide due to their inability to pay their medical bills (and possibly also due to the wife's health problems). One person was courageous (or foolish) enough to imply that he had absolutely no sympathy for them. That led me to wonder how many people would be willing to let the poor die if doing otherwise would put an additional financial burden on them.

So, in order to put some kind of number on it --

What percentage of your income would you be willing to "donate" through an additional tax deduction to help support those U.S. citizens who cannot support themselves? (Just to take the issue of illegal immigration out of the question.)

My answer would be either 0.5% or 1%.

However, my first choice would be to completely overhaul the U.S. healthcare and "welfare" system.
My answer would be 0% for yet another fed tax for "the poor".

Helping those that simply cannot help themselves is indeed the right thing to do, and I have been generous with people I knew personally (or via those close to me I trusted) on many occasions in the past. I wont bore with details.

But simple means testing via the fed govt is a really crappy way to do that, it begs gaming the system. Besides, we already have a slew of bloated programs that are run just that way.

I do not have any sympathy for the willfully ignorant that have consistently made poor life decisions, and tend to keep their hand out to others for rescue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:33 PM
 
13,153 posts, read 4,792,647 times
Reputation: 5390
Quote:
Originally Posted by aileesic View Post
Somewhere around $700-1000 a month figure is adequate (depends on where you live) if paired with housing, food, and medical assistance. A disabled person living by themselves and no other obligations can live just fine on that amount.
So in other words, you are not aware of how things really work for the disabled population. Your description of reality is totally unrealistic, $700 a month is the maximum and housing and medical assistance very far from adequate now. Do you vote for people who cut housing assistance programs and Medicaid?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:34 PM
 
13,153 posts, read 4,792,647 times
Reputation: 5390
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Thatís what family is for, not the village.
And what if the family is dead or unable to take care of that person?

Living on the streets is the alternative and you know it. This idea that millions of disabled people can be taken care of by charity is pure fantasy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:35 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 1,064,781 times
Reputation: 2134
Two entities that live on the streets that don't get my sympathy: a nagging and Flat-Earth SJW mom-in-law who used to live in a van down by the river with Seymour, a silent film-watching and Chris Walken-sounding vegan cannibal zombie moose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:36 PM
 
13,153 posts, read 4,792,647 times
Reputation: 5390
Quote:
Originally Posted by aileesic View Post
There are people with no family, or none capable of taking care of them.

Still, if you are poor, live modestly. Do not expect to have the same lifestyle as those who are not poor.
So if you were born disabled, you think you deserve to live a life of extreme destitution which is what $500 a month in SSI really is...?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:45 PM
 
1,954 posts, read 650,214 times
Reputation: 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
If all the poor people disappeared the middle class would just be the new poor.
Wealth is relative, but welfare is not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:48 PM
 
7,350 posts, read 1,611,961 times
Reputation: 17925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekker99 View Post
Your thread title has "REALLY" capitalized.

So, let me ask you - what does that mean?

What do YOU do, right now, for the "poor"?

Do you volunteer your time to help the poor, or take them in to stay in your house? That, to me, would indicate that you "REALLY" care.

Or is this just virtue signalling for what "REALLY" means?
Well, since you asked me directly --

I capitalized REALLY because I have seen many, many posts and heard many, many people say that they have compassion for, or feel sorry for, the poor -- and yet, in other posts or other conversations, they seem to contradict themselves. (Or perhaps I misunderstood.)

That is why I capitalized "really" -- to ask people how they REALLY felt -- and not just what they say or write. Now, very often, the two ARE the same, but not always, I think. So, to put it another way, I was asking people to be honest.

And, just btw, we adopted two older special needs kids, and I have literally spent thousands of hours doing volunteer work, including volunteering at a food bank, but I am honest enough to admit that I was doing it as much for myself as I was for those I helped.

And, as far as what I "do right now for the poor", my husband and I continue to help my daughter, who is poor due to her own bad choices, in a true emergency, but we do NOT enable her. (But that is another story, and I don't want to derail this thread.)

Last edited by katharsis; 08-09-2019 at 06:30 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:52 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
10,005 posts, read 21,296,850 times
Reputation: 9526
Working poor - a whole lot of compassion

Lazy bums / meth heads who choose to work - Zero.

The current welfare system generously rewards the later while the working poor hardly gets anything. And your benefits increase the less money you earn, which promotes people to stop working.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top