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Old Today, 07:13 AM
 
23,626 posts, read 12,471,766 times
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One thing is certain.........SOMETHING is causing all this to happen, we just need to find out what and how to stop it.

So let's approach this argument from a logical perspective.

Those video games, violent movies, etc. are all easily accessible and part of the culture of many countries. I always pick Canada because it is literally right next door and is the most of any country in the world, influenced by similar lifestyles than the USA.

These includes not just gaming, entertainment, media but lack of prayer in schools, approach to LGBTQ, similar parenting styles, lifestyle norms, etc. Having lived in both countries I assure you - there is very little difference in all those factors that many have been addressing as the 'cause' of the trend int he USA of mass shootings.

Canada is nowhere near the percapita rate of gun violence, incidents, mass shootings.

You are right there is something -- and we have to try and find what is DIFFERENT here in the USA than some place like Canada.

Bringing up factors that exist in other countries that don't have the same problems does nothing but gives people an opportunity to rant about their pet peeves.
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Old Today, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,967 posts, read 5,558,844 times
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Difficult to say. First of all, I don't know what level they are at now. Technology has probably changed so much in the 30 years from the laser simulation I used in actual military police training, I would imagine a thing like that, at tens of thousands of dollars then, is an inexpensive game now.


We used it from simple moving targets running at you from a distance to boarding a drug boat and urban fighting (I think that was a possible scenario) using actual M-16s and Berettas refitted with laser generators. Our guns had the weight of the real thing.


So two things there. First, for those who know, tell me, are the games like that now? And secondly, when I was at my niece's house a decade ago I guess, she wanted me to play with her on a TV system that displayed on a big screen and I couldn't.......because it was too much like the real world I had trained before. Not that I thought I would fall into simulator syndrome but just that I didn't want to play what she thought was a game but I approach as real.


Next, one of my psychology texts from the 90s has a description of a male who grew up rich but didn't have much attention. As I recall the scenario, birthdays were more with the house staff than the parents, hate developed, he would replace the faces, mentally, in horror flicks with those he didn't like such as his parents and as a young adult, he really had a poor view of how to interact with others. Perhaps not the recipe for a shooter but not the best person to have around either.


Let's get back to the drug boat for a moment. I was on point with a Beretta and I went around corner after corner down the passage way. Tension was high because I was doing it with my unit's pride, not to get shot, not to shoot an innocent. My arms were aching from the weight of the Beretta, from being in shooting pose, ready to fire. Came around the corner, there was the crook, maybe with hostages or not, I don't recall now. He had a panel infront of him, I fired, perfect center of mass hit........and he got me. The panel was ruled as armor and my one shot was ineffective.



Now, on a side note to the above. I had been in a ship's fire drill, where the ship had been terrorist attacked, and the damage control party was working to save the ship. I was a guard in a DC locker with a .45. I remember hearing running foot steps approaching, they called out "Messenger" but were they, wondering if someone was coming to throw a grenade in the locker, wondering if to shoot........I didn't, it was a Messenger, but it is one of those lessons you remember.



So A and B. A: Are the video games now like that? Not only showing one what an actual engagement is like but also putting one through all that stress on the mind and the body? B: If so, should it be so?


When I played UT2004 and had the sniper rifle, of course it was not like that. The weight of my rifle, the weight of my rounds, did not weigh on my body. I pretended that this was some kind of round that expanded in size when it was fired or maybe there were antigravs on the rig. It was a game. Another thing about a game as oppose to reality is that the speed of light is amazing. If you jerk the trigger, the round leaving at the speed of light may not be affected as much as it would in reality. ........ but I degress.


Cause? No, probably not, putting simulator syndrome off the table. Simulator syndrome is at theory in airliner crashes where the pilot loses track that he is not in the simulator but actually in a real cockpit. It is a possibility in the Canaries 747 crash. Great theory for airline crashes but I can't see how one would go postal in a shooting, at least not unintentionally, having caused an incident because of that and then trying to bury it under bodies.



As a motivator factor to go postal? Possibly. As a training devise for such an event? Well, you game players tell me, are the games at such a level that what is available on the market could be used by the police and military as realistic training?
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Old Today, 07:44 AM
 
6,507 posts, read 3,633,793 times
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Daughter's friend growing was very much into these video games. Fascinated with guns. His Dad was NYPD. He wanted to become a cop.

He joined the Marines out of HS. Did two tours in Iraq. Peter came back a changed person. Did not want to join the force. Went to college instead and moved to China to teach English. Said recently, he never wants to see or touch a gun every again.

I suppose you might say that War taught him that it is not like a video game?
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Old Today, 07:46 AM
 
23,626 posts, read 12,471,766 times
Reputation: 7514
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Difficult to say. First of all, I don't know what level they are at now. Technology has probably changed so much in the 30 years from the laser simulation I used in actual military police training, I would imagine a thing like that, at tens of thousands of dollars then, is an inexpensive game now.


We used it from simple moving targets running at you from a distance to boarding a drug boat and urban fighting (I think that was a possible scenario) using actual M-16s and Berettas refitted with laser generators. Our guns had the weight of the real thing.


So two things there. First, for those who know, tell me, are the games like that now? And secondly, when I was at my niece's house a decade ago I guess, she wanted me to play with her on a TV system that displayed on a big screen and I couldn't.......because it was too much like the real world I had trained before. Not that I thought I would fall into simulator syndrome but just that I didn't want to play what she thought was a game but I approach as real.


Next, one of my psychology texts from the 90s has a description of a male who grew up rich but didn't have much attention. As I recall the scenario, birthdays were more with the house staff than the parents, hate developed, he would replace the faces, mentally, in horror flicks with those he didn't like such as his parents and as a young adult, he really had a poor view of how to interact with others. Perhaps not the recipe for a shooter but not the best person to have around either.


Let's get back to the drug boat for a moment. I was on point with a Beretta and I went around corner after corner down the passage way. Tension was high because I was doing it with my unit's pride, not to get shot, not to shoot an innocent. My arms were aching from the weight of the Beretta, from being in shooting pose, ready to fire. Came around the corner, there was the crook, maybe with hostages or not, I don't recall now. He had a panel infront of him, I fired, perfect center of mass hit........and he got me. The panel was ruled as armor and my one shot was ineffective.



Now, on a side note to the above. I had been in a ship's fire drill, where the ship had been terrorist attacked, and the damage control party was working to save the ship. I was a guard in a DC locker with a .45. I remember hearing running foot steps approaching, they called out "Messenger" but were they, wondering if someone was coming to throw a grenade in the locker, wondering if to shoot........I didn't, it was a Messenger, but it is one of those lessons you remember.



So A and B. A: Are the video games now like that? Not only showing one what an actual engagement is like but also putting one through all that stress on the mind and the body? B: If so, should it be so?


When I played UT2004 and had the sniper rifle, of course it was not like that. The weight of my rifle, the weight of my rounds, did not weigh on my body. I pretended that this was some kind of round that expanded in size when it was fired or maybe there were antigravs on the rig. It was a game. Another thing about a game as oppose to reality is that the speed of light is amazing. If you jerk the trigger, the round leaving at the speed of light may not be affected as much as it would in reality. ........ but I degress.


Cause? No, probably not, putting simulator syndrome off the table. Simulator syndrome is at theory in airliner crashes where the pilot loses track that he is not in the simulator but actually in a real cockpit. It is a possibility in the Canaries 747 crash. Great theory for airline crashes but I can't see how one would go postal in a shooting, at least not unintentionally, having caused an incident because of that and then trying to bury it under bodies.



As a motivator factor to go postal? Possibly. As a training devise for such an event? Well, you game players tell me, are the games at such a level that what is available on the market could be used by the police and military as realistic training?
Why do video games not have the same impact in other countries where video games are as popular...and the same ones as here?
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Old Today, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
12,013 posts, read 4,100,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
One thing is certain.........SOMETHING is causing all this to happen, we just need to find out what and how to stop it.
My guess is access to powerful guns but it's just a hunch.

The a lot of countries have video games, however they don't have mass shootings to the extent or scale the US does.
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Old Today, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,863 posts, read 11,330,722 times
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I think that video games are very much like the cell phones we all have come to rely on every single day of our lives. Both video games and cell phones have moved us from interacting directly with other people, face to face, to doing it via some electronic device.

I've said before that I will sit in the lunchroom at work, and there are 6 other people, sitting at tables, and all of them have their faces buried in their cell phones, instead of actually communicating and interacting with the people sitting right there with them. I see the same thing at restaurants, people do not talk face to face with other people any more.

I think all of that leads to desensitization and isolation of ones feelings and emotions. People have simply lost the ability to be with other humans and look directly into their eyes and just talk to them.
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Old Today, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,236 posts, read 15,985,931 times
Reputation: 5503
It’s not the abundance and accessibility of guns.

It’s video games.

Yes that’s it.
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Old Today, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,236 posts, read 15,985,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Then why arenít there similar levels of mass shootings in Asia where kids play outside even less?
Most Asian countries have heavy restrictions against guns.

Yet they play violent games way more than the US.

No mass shootings...
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Old Today, 08:14 AM
 
2,193 posts, read 854,001 times
Reputation: 3092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azureth View Post
...old people that have no idea what they're talking about

I'm old and I think that the concept of video games causing people to kill is ludicrous. It's just more of the Left's (yes, I know Trump said it) mantra: it's always someone else's fault. Never take responsibility for your own actions.


BTW, you might want to notch the ageism thing down a bit. Lots of old people play video games and lots young people think violent video games lead to violence. Poorly formed opinions are not the exclusive domain of any single demographic.
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Old Today, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,967 posts, read 5,558,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
Why do video games not have the same impact in other countries where video games are as popular...and the same ones as here?

You tell me for I have said I am rather clueless here.
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