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Old Yesterday, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Japan
10,959 posts, read 4,516,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
It was a broad swipe at those who are absolutely convinced that genetics are primarily responsible for variability of human intelligence on the individual level and between different populations.
Seems to me the much greater problem is those who require us, based on no evidence, to dismiss genetics entirely and assume on faith that there is no variability of human intelligence, or be called a nazi. Where is your broad swipe at them?
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Old Yesterday, 09:17 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,239 posts, read 671,909 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
I would just like to repeat one of my first questions: if geography determined the European trajectory, why did it take so long for Europe to pull away from the rest? Why wasn't Europe dominant after the glaciers receded?

Geography could not matter as much as people claim it does, or there could be some other reason why Europe did not become dominant for thousands of years. I think both are true to an extent, and answering why European dominance came later could also address your points about Europe taking so long to catch up.
In a sense geography did help Europe but not in the way that many people have claimed. Europe in the historical context is quite geographically isolated, especially western Europe. In the period from 1100 to 1600 the Middle East, China, Iran, Russia etc were bombarded with invading armies from central Asia. These invasions toppled with internal power struggles, and some pretty bad plagues did much to curtail the power in these regions. The vacuum of power left over allowed for Western Europe to rise up in power and influence. Notice how the 4 most powerful nations coming out of the Middle Ages were all the most Western in Europe. England, France, Spain and Portugal.

Its also to be noted that the collapse of the Byzantine empire resulted in lots of well educated Greeks fleeing the East and moving into Italy. Their migration from Byzantium into Italy corresponds with emergence of the Renaissance.
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,239 posts, read 671,909 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
So... because one guy, Feynman, scored as merely smart on one IQ test in high school, and not as the super-genius he turned out to be, you reason that IQ tests are of no use in measuring intelligence? Are you serious with this?
The story just goes to highlight that the most important trait needed to do well on an IQ test is the desire to do well on the IQ test. If a highly intelligent person takes the IQ test but doesn't care what score they get, the results will be inaccurate. IQ tests are thus fundamentally flawed since motivation is a critical factor but motivation isn't a measure of intelligence.
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Old Yesterday, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Japan
10,959 posts, read 4,516,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
The story just goes to highlight that the most important trait needed to do well on an IQ test is the desire to do well on the IQ test. If a highly intelligent person takes the IQ test but doesn't care what score they get, the results will be inaccurate. IQ tests are thus fundamentally flawed since motivation is a critical factor but motivation isn't a measure of intelligence.
Hardly a fundamental flaw, rather it's just one (of many) possible confounding factor that researchers try to adjust for.
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Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM
 
12,677 posts, read 3,969,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude5568 View Post
One last time and I'll try and write it in a way that is easy to understand .

point 1 ) - People look different from one another . A Norwegian looks different than a Nigerian who looks different than a Korean.

point 2 ) - These " Phenotypic " differences in skin color , hair texture , nose width , lip thickness and on an on are caused by " environmental " factors of the respective regions these populations evolved in .

point 3 ) - How we classify " race " in America has varied tremendously over the years . It has now ( post WW2 ) settled to a " European phenotype " and christian/jewish religion and identifying with a Western civilization . This is in a Social context . Technically , middle easterners and north africans are classified as " White " by the census bureau but of course not seen as such socially . Did you know Indians were also classified as " White " by the 1970 census but self petitioned to be placed in a different category .

point 4 ) - You can make generalized statements like Europeans have a certain percentage of Neanderthal DNA or Denisovan DNA and so on and I'll not refute this . The point is that this is just an interesting tidbit of information and holds no tangible biologic meaning .

point 5 ) - Humans are very similar genetically ( 99.9 percent same).

point 6) - " Race " is what people say it is ( hence a social construct ) . It is a system of classification that has malice at it's core and has brought untold misery to people's lives whether be it slavery , segregation or the holocaust . That combined with that fact that it is a scientifically dubious system of classifying people is my argument for why I discredit it. We humans are insecure , imperfect beings . Before long , curiosities about someone's phenotype evolve into a judgement about their intelligence , morality and culture ( as is abundantly evident on this thread itself ). That is where the problem starts .

Last point ) - No one is saying people don't look different , No one is saying there are not genetic clusters among populations , no one is saying europeans might not have more neanderthal DNA than sub saharan africans and on and on . What I am saying is that these little tidbits are not justifications to divide people into " races ".

It's the classic chicken or the egg . That means that if you for whatever reason WANT to SEE people as different you can use all these " tidbits " to justify what you want to do and what fits your social and political agenda . Your agenda might be a benign one ( " in the name of the truth " or " to show those liberals and social justice warriors whose right " ) or a malicious one ( " all jews must die " ) but that does not change the fact that you CHOOSE to see the world this way . We all evolved from about 3000 " pre humans " about 70,000 years ago and where you draw the line from that till August , 2019 is up-to you man.

Looking at the world this way has only brought mayhem and misery . We are all the same . Whether you accept it or not.

I believe now I am truly done.
While I don't agree much with any of your points, the bolded I disagree with the most. You don't need to acknowledge the concept or classification of race to have malice, untold misery, slavery, genocide etc. I believe if we are honest about race and immutable difference , we could avoid those problems by allowing incompatible, dissimilar peoples to live apart, independently and autonomously and thrive or not on their own merit. That's what I believe nature wants.
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Old Yesterday, 09:45 PM
Status: "NEVER try to ride the angriest bull in the pen." (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,136 posts, read 2,158,362 times
Reputation: 3876
Default 16,000 Readers Shared Their Experiences of Being Told to ‘Go Back.’ Here Are Some of Their Stories.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/r...k-stories.html

Some even were born in this country. Often expressed in abusive tones, they often remember it to this day. As children, being called "terrorist" after 9/11 (that would sear deeply into a child's or even teenager's memory). It's not just Hispanics or Middle Easterners either. Even East Asians got that message growing up. Some multi-generational Black Americans even got told "Go back to Africa". And this was before 2015ish. You can guess the frequency and type of reactions since then.
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Japan
10,959 posts, read 4,516,582 times
Reputation: 7027
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
While I don't agree much with any of your points, the bolded I disagree with the most. You don't need to acknowledge the concept or classification of race to have malice, untold misery, slavery, genocide etc. I believe if we are honest about race and immutable difference , we could avoid those problems by allowing incompatible, dissimilar peoples to live apart, independently and autonomously and thrive or not on their own merit. That's what I believe nature wants.
... or not. Acknowledging difference doesn't necessarily mean we need to separate. If we blamed mother nature for our differences, rather than each other, it should become easier to live together.
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Old Yesterday, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Japan
10,959 posts, read 4,516,582 times
Reputation: 7027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230 View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/r...k-stories.html

Some even were born in this country. Often expressed in abusive tones, they often remember it to this day. As children, being called "terrorist" after 9/11 (that would sear deeply into a child's or even teenager's memory). It's not just Hispanics or Middle Easterners either. Even East Asians got that message growing up. Some multi-generational Black Americans even got told "Go back to Africa". And this was before 2015ish. You can guess the frequency and type of reactions since then.
That's completely off topic. Are you trying to get the thread locked?
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Old Yesterday, 10:01 PM
 
12,677 posts, read 3,969,410 times
Reputation: 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
... or not. Acknowledging difference doesn't necessarily mean we need to separate. If we blamed mother nature for our differences, rather than each other, it should become easier to live together.
I'm not saying there should have to be full and complete separation necessarily, but voluntary separation should be respected. I'm more of making the point that increasing diversity to the max should not be the goal but just the opposite of limiting it. A very limited and selective amount of diversity within a jurisdiction isn't a problem or bad.
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Old Yesterday, 10:52 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,937 posts, read 12,412,697 times
Reputation: 4861
I don't think race explains why some civilizations are more successful but belief system and culture most definitely does.

Remember that when Mesopotamia was the cradle of civilization, the ancient Babylonians were not Muslim and Islam had not been invented yet. The Ancient Egyptians who built the pyramids were not Muslims. The Persian empire in what's now Iran was also not Islam. Recall that ALL the major Middle eastern civilizations were great civilizations before Islam.

Ever since the invention of Islam there has not been a single great civilization in the Middle East or Arab world. What the Arab Muslims are proud of was usually stolen, like a lot of the scientific achievements they're proud of were stolen from the Greeks and Roman and they claim to have invented numbers but that was originally from India. Ever since the advent of Islam the Middle East has seen nothing but savagery and depridation.
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