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Old 08-17-2019, 04:38 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
67,204 posts, read 34,218,319 times
Reputation: 14468

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
"White supremacy" only exists as a concept because the last 500 years of history have been dominated by Europeans. How did that come about?

There is the geography theory, as espoused by Guns, Germs, and Steel. The northern European plain is the nearest large agricultural region to the cradle of civilization, so the theory goes it was bound to become dominant. I generally don't buy this, because China and India were actually more prosperous until about 1500, so why did the geography hand dealt take so long to be played?

There are genetic theories, mostly garbage since genetic diversity within the Homo sapiens out-of-Africa group is small compared to hominid diversity, and yet only one part of this group became Europeans. Also a genetic advantage would have again not waited until 1500 to take hold.

More plausibly, the development of the scientific method is easily shown to be an antecedent of most of Europe's modern advantages, and the scientific method was developed around 1500. That raises the further question of why Europe developed the scientific method, which Christian and classical apologists have played with for quite some time. I think the classicists have more to work with, which raises the question why the ancient Greeks were so advanced. This is a bit of a rabbit hole.

Most compelling to me is the European discovery of the new world. It happened around 1500 as well, and produced fabulous riches for Europeans, as well as acting as a population pressure release valve. I don't think any other civilization has had such a stroke of good fortune befall them as a discovery which triples the amount of land available to you. As to why Europeans were pressed to explore and others weren't, we know the reason is the exorbitant cost of the spice trade as exacted by middle Eastern and Mediterranean middlemen. And the Chinese voyages of exploration were abandoned for petty reasons with world-historical implications.
There is a reason we are not all still living in mud huts.
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Old 08-17-2019, 05:04 PM
 
12,890 posts, read 3,996,352 times
Reputation: 3883
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
What evidence is there that Ashkenazi Jews are anything but a European ethnic group?
I don't know I read of a genetic study that found they're ancestrally about half European and half middle eastern. But some studies suggest they have less middle eastern ancestry. Ashkenazis: Half Middle Eastern, half European?, by Steve Sailer - The Unz Review

My main point was one could just easily attribute their achievement as a reflection on their European ancestry and being from the European culture as not.
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Old 08-17-2019, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
16,618 posts, read 16,754,294 times
Reputation: 12672
If you watch Black athletes and you are honest, you will say WOW, they are insanely good. Watch someone like Deontay Wilder, he is above and beyond what most from any other race could ever achieve in boxing.......ditto for Daniel Cormier and MMA.

Same thing with Whites when it comes to creating things that advance modernity. Whites are the most inventive geniuses in the universe, that is almost undeniable.
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Old 08-17-2019, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Up North
4,258 posts, read 1,104,213 times
Reputation: 2526
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
There is a reason we are not all still living in mud huts.
That's kind of true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
If you watch Black athletes and you are honest, you will say WOW, they are insanely good. Watch someone like Deontay Wilder, he is above and beyond what most from any other race could ever achieve in boxing.......ditto for Daniel Cormier and MMA.

Same thing with Whites when it comes to creating things that advance modernity. Whites are the most inventive geniuses in the universe, that is almost undeniable.
Klitschko Is the greatest of the modern era. Wilder is average if you ask me.
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Old 08-17-2019, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Japan
10,987 posts, read 4,528,731 times
Reputation: 7039
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
I don't know I read of a genetic study that found they're ancestrally about half European and half middle eastern. But some studies suggest they have less middle eastern ancestry. Ashkenazis: Half Middle Eastern, half European?, by Steve Sailer - The Unz Review
Thanks, that's informative. Unz.com is a great resource.

Quote:
My main point was one could just easily attribute their achievement as a reflection on their European ancestry and being from the European culture as not.
That blog entry happens to link to an LA Times article featuring Gregory Cochran, who invented the very plausible theory that European Jewish intelligence has been selected for within just the past millennium or so due to their being channeled into professions requiring higher IQ for success. It could well be that their ancestors 1000 years ago were little different than other Europeans and Middle-Eastern Jews.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:03 PM
 
12,890 posts, read 3,996,352 times
Reputation: 3883
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Thanks, that's informative. Unz.com is a great resource.


That blog entry happens to link to an LA Times article featuring Gregory Cochran, who invented the very plausible theory that European Jewish intelligence has been selected for within just the past millennium or so due to their being channeled into professions requiring higher IQ for success. It could well be that their ancestors 1000 years ago were little different than other Europeans and Middle-Eastern Jews.
I've heard of that theory. I do think there was selective mating whatever the cause over that time period. It seems they still selectively mate for intelligence not by necessity or happenstance but choice.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Historic West End
4,262 posts, read 3,634,403 times
Reputation: 4060
It was mainly through suppression and the manipulation of the English Language, and the government systems that came out of Europe. Any nations of (modern Europe) that raided a nation of wealth, and set of a law system of real estate that give them control over land would have the advantage. Greeks have always tried to promote white as been the standard, and the world brought that lie. I am glad those lies are being brought down in history. In fact this very thread explains why some have this illusion of advancement by creating class differences and exploiting division. Nothing new, but the oldest trick that came from England, Europe, to justify immoral behavior.

Funny how people tend to forget about the human atrocity like the Holocaust, Atlantic Slaves Trade, and the raiding of wealth from Africa. Some cultures are just good at stealing history and re-shaping for their advantage.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Japan
10,987 posts, read 4,528,731 times
Reputation: 7039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlwarrior View Post
It was mainly through suppression and the manipulation of the English Language, and the government systems that came out of Europe. Any nations of (modern Europe) that raided a nation of wealth, and set of a law system of real estate that give them control over land would have the advantage. Greeks have always tried to promote white as been the standard, and the world brought that lie. I am glad those lies are being brought down in history. In fact this very thread explains why some have this illusion of advancement by creating class differences and exploiting division. Nothing new, but the oldest trick that came from England, Europe, to justify immoral behavior.

Funny how people tend to forget about the human atrocity like the Holocaust, Atlantic Slaves Trade, and the raiding of wealth from Africa. Some cultures are just good at stealing history and re-shaping for their advantage.
Is that what you're doing with this post?
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:59 PM
 
2,265 posts, read 1,762,252 times
Reputation: 1493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
"White supremacy" only exists as a concept because the last 500 years of history have been dominated by Europeans. How did that come about?

There is the geography theory, as espoused by Guns, Germs, and Steel. The northern European plain is the nearest large agricultural region to the cradle of civilization, so the theory goes it was bound to become dominant. I generally don't buy this, because China and India were actually more prosperous until about 1500, so why did the geography hand dealt take so long to be played?

There are genetic theories, mostly garbage since genetic diversity within the Homo sapiens out-of-Africa group is small compared to hominid diversity, and yet only one part of this group became Europeans. Also a genetic advantage would have again not waited until 1500 to take hold.

More plausibly, the development of the scientific method is easily shown to be an antecedent of most of Europe's modern advantages, and the scientific method was developed around 1500. That raises the further question of why Europe developed the scientific method, which Christian and classical apologists have played with for quite some time. I think the classicists have more to work with, which raises the question why the ancient Greeks were so advanced. This is a bit of a rabbit hole.

Most compelling to me is the European discovery of the new world. It happened around 1500 as well, and produced fabulous riches for Europeans, as well as acting as a population pressure release valve. I don't think any other civilization has had such a stroke of good fortune befall them as a discovery which triples the amount of land available to you. As to why Europeans were pressed to explore and others weren't, we know the reason is the exorbitant cost of the spice trade as exacted by middle Eastern and Mediterranean middlemen. And the Chinese voyages of exploration were abandoned for petty reasons with world-historical implications.



1500 far east Asia (China in particular), parts of Arabian peninsula, parts of Indian subcontinents were as advanced as Europe. "Advanced" is actually not much - able to build seagoing ships, crew them, navigate them without knowing longitude precisely, organize society and have enforceable laws, grow crops or trade for food, build weapons, make iron and crude steel (Bessemer method still 375 years away), have military power to defend against neighbors, have writing, allow business to make and keep gains from business activities.



The real question is why did they not go forth to conquer lands and beat the Europeans.




Europeans had actually overfished the waters around Europe. There were more fish further out to sea but without refrigeration or on-vessel holding tanks that circulated fresh seawater the catch would spoil before it could be processed (salting, drying) before they landed.


Agriculture in Europe was strained in 1500. Too many fields were used too often. It wasn't until modern synthetic fertilizers that Europe could feed itself. There were localized famines and undernourishment in Europe.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:21 AM
 
9,944 posts, read 10,240,843 times
Reputation: 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
As to why Europeans were pressed to explore and others weren't, we know the reason is the exorbitant cost of the spice trade as exacted by middle Eastern and Mediterranean middlemen. And the Chinese voyages of exploration were abandoned for petty reasons with world-historical implications.
When Zheng He died in the 1430s China missed their chance for global reach. The most significant conquest in all of human history was the Fall of Constantinople on 29 May 1453 which sent the Europeans on voyages that ended up in world domination.

The Aztecs were better engineers, but they built their civilization far from the malaria-infested coastlines. Had they invested more of that skill into boat building, it could have been them.
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