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Old 08-20-2019, 10:11 PM
 
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This video talks a lot about the influences of the Moors in Europe:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA6dm7CCSDA


Maybe somewhat one-sided but there were influences.


Is there a full video of the influence of the Greeks, Romans and even other westerners on the Arabs? I dunno. But there should be. Let me know, if you know of these. On similar interaction accounts between west and China, Romans and Goths and so forth.

Last edited by NW Crow; 08-20-2019 at 11:05 PM..
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:16 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,981 posts, read 75,025,502 times
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Many feel that European history is not a story of advancement
I am not one of them
The Pollyanna picture currently painted of the new world is very distorted -my aunt was a Winslow pioneer and lived in a covered wagon as a child
The Hollywood version of the American Indian is hardly in the same ball park as my aunts stories
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:22 PM
 
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By "Winslow pioneer" do you mean a pioneer of the Winslow AZ area? What timeframe did your family arrive?


The Hollywood version of the American Indian or the American pioneer (and "cowboys") are each far from reality or complexity, to my understanding. Same with a lot of the academic histories, at least before recent times and even into recent times.


I do agree with distortions of history and refusal to face all of it fairly. The late history of Chaco culture is one example.
The presence of slavery and human sacrifice in general tend to get washed out of some stories of ancient North America. Tribal warfare tends to get a different treatment then warfare with "the whites".


Hopi, Navajo, Apache, Mexican, Spanish, Mormon and non-Mormon histories will all have different perspectives.
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Old 08-21-2019, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
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Not sure why 1500 was picked as the year of advancement, as after the Romans left with their plumbing, toilets, baths and roads, things went down hill, and it was around 1700 that things started to improve, although living conditions were still poor in many areas in Victorian times, as was life expectancy in the poorer areas.

London is well documented around the time of Shakespeare who arrived in London in 1587, and was later extensively written about by Samuel Pepys in his famous diary.

In Shakespeares time, people just threw thier chamber pots out on the street and sewage openly ran through the streets, there was littlr planning and housing was cramped and dangerous, and entertainment included bear baiting, bird fighting and prostitution, even plays could often be coarse and full of fairly obsene language.

"Although flush toilets were invented by one of Elizabeth I courtiers, John Harrington (the American slang-word for toilet, 'john', thus honours its inventor), no indoor plumbing was installed in any of the royal castles during Shakespeare's lifetime. Thus, life at court could be luxurious, but it could also stink".

South London, which was largely owned by the Church was little more than a giant brothel and den of vice, taverns, gambling and criminality, and people were wary of going South of the river.

Shakespeare's London - The British Library

21 Facts About Shakespeare's London - No Sweat Shakespeare

Croos Bones Graveyard, near the Shard is where 15,000 paupers were buried, many werre local prostitutes who worked in the local brothels and who often died young due to disease, they are known as the Winchester Geese, as the Bishop of Winchester owned ost of the area. They were buriued here because they were not allowed to be buried on consecrated (Holy) ground. Today flowers, tributes, ribbons and messages/poetry have been placed around the burial ground in their memory and it is now a garden of rememberance. John Stow, in his A Survey of London (1598), made mention of a "Single Woman's churchyard" in Southwark, near the Clink Prison.

Crossbones Graveyard

Cross Bones - Wikipedia

The Clink - Wikipedia



Last edited by Brave New World; 08-21-2019 at 04:18 AM..
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:25 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
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Guns and a focus on international trade/mercantilism with a lot of competing powers.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:15 AM
 
377 posts, read 44,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
The actual foundation of America was built on the backs of Africans so WE have more of a right to this land than ANY other racial/ethnic group with the exception being indigenous Americans.
It was also built on the backs of donkeys and oxen. What's your point? Why didn't all this magical African labor develop Africa which today is the poorest and least developed continent on earth? Countries like Tuvalu - with 10,000 people in the middle of the south pacific with no resources - are more developed than 10-15 large African countries with a huge amount of resources.

Now you guys deserve your place here, because you were brought here against your will. But for the most part, you didn't develop America other than in some areas of culture (mostly music).
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Up North
4,305 posts, read 1,115,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
It was also built on the backs of donkeys and oxen. What's your point? Why didn't all this magical African labor develop Africa which today is the poorest and least developed continent on earth? Countries like Tuvalu - with 10,000 people in the middle of the south pacific with no resources - are more developed than 10-15 large African countries with a huge amount of resources.

Now you guys deserve your place here, because you were brought here against your will. But for the most part, you didn't develop America other than in some areas of culture (mostly music).
They certainly deserve to be here, and it was completely evil that anyone ever was put into the bondage of slavery.


But every one of them in Abe Lincoln's time should have been sent back to Africa (Liberia). It would have saved America an infinite (and unending, to this day...) amount of trouble.
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:51 AM
 
19,784 posts, read 12,444,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
It was also built on the backs of donkeys and oxen. What's your point? Why didn't all this magical African labor develop Africa which today is the poorest and least developed continent on earth? Countries like Tuvalu - with 10,000 people in the middle of the south pacific with no resources - are more developed than 10-15 large African countries with a huge amount of resources.

Now you guys deserve your place here, because you were brought here against your will. But for the most part, you didn't develop America other than in some areas of culture (mostly music).

Great points. You always here this liberal drivel about blacks "building America". Nothing is further from the truth. Black slaves were used as beasts of burden in mostly an agricultural capacity in the US. As you point out, their contribution was akin to that of oxen, horses and mules.


American slaves did nothing for innovation, development of products, westward expansion, and the development of US manufacturing and finance.


If blacks "built" the US, why did not all the blacks back in Africa "build" Africa and convert it into an economic and innovative juggernaut?
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:55 AM
 
377 posts, read 44,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Great points. You always here this liberal drivel about blacks "building America". Nothing is further from the truth. Black slaves were used as beasts of burden in mostly an agricultural capacity in the US. As you point out, their contribution was akin to that of oxen, horses and mules.


American slaves did nothing for innovation, development of products, westward expansion, and the development of US manufacturing and finance.


If blacks "built" the US, why did not all the blacks back in Africa "build" Africa and convert it into an economic and innovative juggernaut?
He doesn't believe it either. He's saying it because he expects us to either backdown or say what I said and then he can gleefully call me a racist. Well newsflash, I don't care, call me a racist as the day is long, I will say what I think.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Up North
4,305 posts, read 1,115,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Great points. You always here this liberal drivel about blacks "building America". Nothing is further from the truth. Black slaves were used as beasts of burden in mostly an agricultural capacity in the US. As you point out, their contribution was akin to that of oxen, horses and mules.


American slaves did nothing for innovation, development of products, westward expansion, and the development of US manufacturing and finance.


If blacks "built" the US, why did not all the blacks back in Africa "build" Africa and convert it into an economic and innovative juggernaut?
There's also the conundrum of states that came after slavery ended. Minnesota (my state) didn't even come into statehood until literally a few years before the CW, and even today it's like only 5% African-American. How could we have ever benefited off of slavery? Well, we didn't. If anything we suffered because of slavery, since we sent in one of the first brigades of men to fight (and die) in the Union cause. Most of my state's history was like 95% white (or higher). We rank the highest in life-expectancy, educated class, and many other statistics. Moreover, the Native tribes in my area have been quite well taken care of - they are the wealthiest people (per capita) on the face of the planet.


But as a former President once said: "the Federal Government did not create the States; the States created the Federal Government." So...I owe no one anything.
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