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Old 08-09-2019, 08:45 PM
 
1,791 posts, read 610,276 times
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"White supremacy" only exists as a concept because the last 500 years of history have been dominated by Europeans. How did that come about?

There is the geography theory, as espoused by Guns, Germs, and Steel. The northern European plain is the nearest large agricultural region to the cradle of civilization, so the theory goes it was bound to become dominant. I generally don't buy this, because China and India were actually more prosperous until about 1500, so why did the geography hand dealt take so long to be played?

There are genetic theories, mostly garbage since genetic diversity within the Homo sapiens out-of-Africa group is small compared to hominid diversity, and yet only one part of this group became Europeans. Also a genetic advantage would have again not waited until 1500 to take hold.

More plausibly, the development of the scientific method is easily shown to be an antecedent of most of Europe's modern advantages, and the scientific method was developed around 1500. That raises the further question of why Europe developed the scientific method, which Christian and classical apologists have played with for quite some time. I think the classicists have more to work with, which raises the question why the ancient Greeks were so advanced. This is a bit of a rabbit hole.

Most compelling to me is the European discovery of the new world. It happened around 1500 as well, and produced fabulous riches for Europeans, as well as acting as a population pressure release valve. I don't think any other civilization has had such a stroke of good fortune befall them as a discovery which triples the amount of land available to you. As to why Europeans were pressed to explore and others weren't, we know the reason is the exorbitant cost of the spice trade as exacted by middle Eastern and Mediterranean middlemen. And the Chinese voyages of exploration were abandoned for petty reasons with world-historical implications.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:25 PM
 
12,662 posts, read 3,960,291 times
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This is probably too complicated of a question with the answers buried in time for anyone to really answer.

I personally think Europeans have long been highly intelligent, and just as importantly creative and inquisitive. Their rise was probably a lot longer than the past 500 years in the making and their circumstances held it back.

I'm more fascinated or interested in the dismantling of the European people's fortunes and culture since about 1915 but especially since the 1940s. Europeans seem to be perpetually saddled with bad leadership and detrimental characters within their mix.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Places you dream of
20,482 posts, read 12,258,521 times
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What ever the Europeans were doing to grow in knowledge etc and advance the world, several idiots came out of that and made a mess - such as Mussolini. C Marx, Hitler, and maybe some I missed. The bureaucracy is insane. The state is more important than its people and England and Rome love to commit genocides like in Africa and India. I’m not sure got too much to brag about
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Japan
10,945 posts, read 4,511,290 times
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Quote:
why did Europe become more advanced around 1500?
There is a theory that the Black Death, which killed roughly half the population of Europe in the 1340s, changed society in ways that led to the end of the Dark Ages and eventually to the Renaissance.

Quote:
The social consequences of the plague on society came to be profound. The high mortality rate resulted in a drastic decline in the labor force.[7]. Wages rose for both agricultural and urban workers. The survivors of the Black Death generally had a higher standard of living than before the plague.[8] This was a phenomenon that occurred in both urban and rural areas. The crisis caused by the Black Death led to many changes in the economy, in response to the fall in the population. Because of the labor shortages, there was a move from labor-intensive farming such as cereal to livestock and increase both in industry and agriculture more labor-saving devices employed.[9] The impact of the Black Death was contrary on feudalism in Italy...
How did the Bubonic Plague make the Italian Renaissance possible?
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:28 AM
 
Location: San Angelo, TX
1,788 posts, read 3,007,272 times
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Iron, ballistics, and guns.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:48 AM
 
143 posts, read 95,048 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
"White supremacy" only exists as a concept because the last 500 years of history have been dominated by Europeans. How did that come about?

There is the geography theory, as espoused by Guns, Germs, and Steel. The northern European plain is the nearest large agricultural region to the cradle of civilization, so the theory goes it was bound to become dominant. I generally don't buy this, because China and India were actually more prosperous until about 1500, so why did the geography hand dealt take so long to be played?

There are genetic theories, mostly garbage since genetic diversity within the Homo sapiens out-of-Africa group is small compared to hominid diversity, and yet only one part of this group became Europeans. Also a genetic advantage would have again not waited until 1500 to take hold.

More plausibly, the development of the scientific method is easily shown to be an antecedent of most of Europe's modern advantages, and the scientific method was developed around 1500. That raises the further question of why Europe developed the scientific method, which Christian and classical apologists have played with for quite some time. I think the classicists have more to work with, which raises the question why the ancient Greeks were so advanced. This is a bit of a rabbit hole.

Most compelling to me is the European discovery of the new world. It happened around 1500 as well, and produced fabulous riches for Europeans, as well as acting as a population pressure release valve. I don't think any other civilization has had such a stroke of good fortune befall them as a discovery which triples the amount of land available to you. As to why Europeans were pressed to explore and others weren't, we know the reason is the exorbitant cost of the spice trade as exacted by middle Eastern and Mediterranean middlemen. And the Chinese voyages of exploration were abandoned for petty reasons with world-historical implications.
That is false .

500 years from today would make it August , 1519 . What part of Europe was dominant over , let's say , the Ottomans at that time ? ( fact .. the Ottomans had captured the heart of the Byzantine christendom just 66 years ago and made it Islamic ).

Hell , let's make it 1719 ( 300 years back from today ) , what part of Europe was dominant over the Qings or the Safavids or even the dead and decaying Mughals . And how do you ascertain " dominance "anyways ?

I would put the " Great Divergence " as starting in the mid 18th century and firmly established by the middle to late 19th century . Also , by this time the Protestant northern Europe and France ( which I believe was still majority catholic ) had far surpassed both southern and eastern Europe also in literacy , wealth , scientific advancement and industrialization . When the upper class victorian Englishman talked about the west's ( and particularly England's ) superiority over the rest , he did not include either the mediterraneans or eastern Europeans as his brethren. He talked about the " Anglo saxon " race which BTW were seen as " distinct " from someone like an Irishman or a Hungarian then they were from a lower caste Indian peasant.

This " Pan European " " white " identity is by and large an American concept ( post WW 2 ) and functions as a manufactured social caste . Before WW 1 , being " Anglo saxon " was all the rage here too.

My answer as to why this happened - Gutenberg's Printing press --> Increased Literacy in western Europe --> intellectual blossoming on an unprecedented scale --> enlightenment , scientific and industrial revolution.

This is a hyper TLDR version of this otherwise very complex topic and of course by it's nature rather speculative.
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Washington State
19,010 posts, read 9,796,742 times
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I wouldn't say it was due to intelligence since Asians are probably on IQ slightly higher and their development was much slower. I would say creative thinking which is attributable to individualism and the concept of property rights were the biggest factors.
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Old 08-10-2019, 03:16 AM
 
161 posts, read 22,827 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
"White supremacy" only exists as a concept because the last 500 years of history have been dominated by Europeans. How did that come about?

There is the geography theory, as espoused by Guns, Germs, and Steel. The northern European plain is the nearest large agricultural region to the cradle of civilization, so the theory goes it was bound to become dominant. I generally don't buy this, because China and India were actually more prosperous until about 1500, so why did the geography hand dealt take so long to be played?

There are genetic theories, mostly garbage since genetic diversity within the Homo sapiens out-of-Africa group is small compared to hominid diversity, and yet only one part of this group became Europeans. Also a genetic advantage would have again not waited until 1500 to take hold.

More plausibly, the development of the scientific method is easily shown to be an antecedent of most of Europe's modern advantages, and the scientific method was developed around 1500. That raises the further question of why Europe developed the scientific method, which Christian and classical apologists have played with for quite some time. I think the classicists have more to work with, which raises the question why the ancient Greeks were so advanced. This is a bit of a rabbit hole.

Most compelling to me is the European discovery of the new world. It happened around 1500 as well, and produced fabulous riches for Europeans, as well as acting as a population pressure release valve. I don't think any other civilization has had such a stroke of good fortune befall them as a discovery which triples the amount of land available to you. As to why Europeans were pressed to explore and others weren't, we know the reason is the exorbitant cost of the spice trade as exacted by middle Eastern and Mediterranean middlemen. And the Chinese voyages of exploration were abandoned for petty reasons with world-historical implications.
In the past 500 years. Only three nations had more guns that can out gun any nation on earth. The Spanish empire, British empire and the United States. Its also interesting that English and spanish are the two widely spoken languages on earth. The Spanish, the British and British child colony known as the United States dominated banking. Spanish silver dollar was a global currency up until the early 19th century, British pound sterling was a global currency up until the inter war periods and the United States dollar replaced the pound sterling as global currency during Breton woods summit after ww2. Also all three nations at one point controlled the oceans for shipping and for defense purposes. Napoleon broke Spains back. Ww1 and ww2 broke Britain's back. As for the United States? I dont know what entity will break its back.

As for the war agaisnt white supremacy? White supremacy is not going no where anytime soon. If anyone wants to end white supremacy. Stop celebrating Christmas, and Easter which started out as European pagan holidays. Stop using indo European languages, stop using European forms of economics and stop using European government systems that came out of Greece and Rome. Even communism is a European concept. If one wants to end white supremacy. Stop using European forms of the educational system.

The only way to end whit supremacy is to either have pameurasian nation Russia control the world, or China and India to go so.

Last edited by Verifiedcheckmark; 08-10-2019 at 03:30 AM..
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:03 AM
 
860 posts, read 273,037 times
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the creation of the bank of England and "central banking" directly corresponds to the ability to finance the English navy and financial capital to expand growth...that and Europeans invented a better clock to enable accurate longitude and latitude on the high seas making for better navigation
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:13 AM
 
Location: the Sticks
9,034 posts, read 2,568,109 times
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Look at the leaps we have made in the last 100 years.. WE barely notice them because we are so close.

There is a thing called the Ess curve. What initiates it is debatable. Environment, need, ideas, etc.
We all have that epiphany happen in our lives. It's what we do with it that will either cause it to wither on the vine or flourish.

That's why I am no fan of state sponsored solutions to everyday issues. In other words let big brother do all the thinking. The old saying Necessity is the mother of invention, is true.

Cause and effect. Hate war? Me too, but what has come out of war and accelerated it? Medical care, reconstructive surgery techniques. Wondrous advancements enjoyed by all. Look how warfare accelerated the development of aircraft, the radio, sonar and radar.. Like you're GPS? So many things came about or were advanced by military needs.
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