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Old 08-10-2019, 10:31 AM
 
11,631 posts, read 7,476,013 times
Reputation: 4768

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
The Afghanistan and Iraq wars were overwhelmingly popular at the time they were started, 80% public approval at one point, bipartisan support after 9/11. Trump tried to pull us out of Syria and he was met with the media calling him a Russian puppet and bipartisan disapproval. You don’t “pay for” tax cuts that line doesn’t even make any sense. For one thing tax cuts aren’t historically revenue negative, we collected more in tax revenue after Every major tax cut the last 60 years by eliminating loopholes, increasing growth and broadening base. There’s only so much taxes you can collect once you go too high with marginal rates you start loosing money and shrinking base. Also the money isn’t the governments it’s the people’s allowing them to keep more of their own money isn’t an expense. Your logic is highly flawed.
Trump’s tax scam will add 2 trillion to our debt over 10 years.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:42 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,844 posts, read 3,055,922 times
Reputation: 6854
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Yes, pre-war GDP in Europe was surpassed by 1950. And they boomed all throughout the 50s and 60s until the oil crisis.

The US boomed all throughout the New Deal period with an interventionist government, strongest labor unions ever, high minimum wages, and higher taxes on the well-off.

Thats just the reality.
Yeah, reality according to you.

Unless you have proof, I am going to really doubt Europe just coming off a war where millions died and whole cities bombed out recovered in a few short years to what they were before.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
4,087 posts, read 2,325,646 times
Reputation: 2713
Bernie has made it clear that his Medicare for all will be paid for by a hike in taxes of all taxpayers, the cost savings come in from not paying for your health insurance and copays, as well as freeing companies from having them provide health insurance which will benefit small businesses and start ups.

His plan for “free” education would be paid for by Wall Street speculation, which will increase the cost of investment, but also discourage dangerous investment/trade practices that caused the 2008 recession.

To say the money isn’t accounted for and it’s just a tax on the rich is a misleading statement. Sure you don’t have to agree with the policy or means of funding, but at least try and listen directly from him rather than sound bites from Fox News and Ben Shapiro.


https://youtu.be/2O-iLk1G_ng
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Old 08-11-2019, 04:18 AM
 
13,176 posts, read 4,798,784 times
Reputation: 5395
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Yeah, reality according to you.

Unless you have proof, I am going to really doubt Europe just coming off a war where millions died and whole cities bombed out recovered in a few short years to what they were before.
You just have to read about the post-war economic boom in the western world to know this. Not sources from "think tanks" with their own agenda.
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:17 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,844 posts, read 3,055,922 times
Reputation: 6854
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
You just have to read about the post-war economic boom in the western world to know this. Not sources from "think tanks" with their own agenda.
You've provided no proof of your claim. You are the one suggesting that a region of the world devastated by a world war and millions of lives lost but yet recovered to what they were before in just a couple of years with no data to back up your claim.
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:45 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,844 posts, read 3,055,922 times
Reputation: 6854
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Bernie has made it clear that his Medicare for all will be paid for by a hike in taxes of all taxpayers, the cost savings come in from not paying for your health insurance and copays, as well as freeing companies from having them provide health insurance which will benefit small businesses and start ups.

His plan for “free” education would be paid for by Wall Street speculation, which will increase the cost of investment, but also discourage dangerous investment/trade practices that caused the 2008 recession.

To say the money isn’t accounted for and it’s just a tax on the rich is a misleading statement. Sure you don’t have to agree with the policy or means of funding, but at least try and listen directly from him rather than sound bites from Fox News and Ben Shapiro.


https://youtu.be/2O-iLk1G_ng
Except the link provided by the OP was from yahoo.com, a Leftist site, not Fox News or Ben Shapiro.

And yes, I did read up Bernie's own site and even I have my doubts about his plan. It conveniently quickly goes over the very important part where it tries to explain how it will all be financed.

It said that the tax will be higher for higher income people but since most of the taxpayers in this country are middle class, most of the tax will be from them, not the wealthy and certainly not from the poor. His plan is essentially going to move the tax burden from employers to the middle class. That sounds like a plan that will doom the middle class.

Bernie is your typical shyster. He makes it sound good (at least to the many easily brainwashed folks out there) but conveniently leaves out very critical parts like the middle class paying for most of his pie-in-the-sky plans.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,656 posts, read 14,061,208 times
Reputation: 22696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
as an Amazon customer the less they pay in taxes the better off I am by way of lower prices. Tell me how I'm wrong?
They don't set prices based on how much tax they pay, their business model is to compete on the basis of price and convenience. The premise that if businesses paid less tax the things they make would cost less has been proven wrong once again by virtue of the fact that they didn't reduce prices because of the 2018 tax bill.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:12 AM
 
13,176 posts, read 4,798,784 times
Reputation: 5395
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
You've provided no proof of your claim. You are the one suggesting that a region of the world devastated by a world war and millions of lives lost but yet recovered to what they were before in just a couple of years with no data to back up your claim.
I urge you to read this paper to get more informed:

https://www.un.org/development/desa/...S_2017_ch2.pdf
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:14 AM
 
13,176 posts, read 4,798,784 times
Reputation: 5395
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Except the link provided by the OP was from yahoo.com, a Leftist site, not Fox News or Ben Shapiro.

And yes, I did read up Bernie's own site and even I have my doubts about his plan. It conveniently quickly goes over the very important part where it tries to explain how it will all be financed.

It said that the tax will be higher for higher income people but since most of the taxpayers in this country are middle class, most of the tax will be from them, not the wealthy and certainly not from the poor. His plan is essentially going to move the tax burden from employers to the middle class. That sounds like a plan that will doom the middle class.

Bernie is your typical shyster. He makes it sound good (at least to the many easily brainwashed folks out there) but conveniently leaves out very critical parts like the middle class paying for most of his pie-in-the-sky plans.
Employers are not "burdened" now, its the employees who are. The employers simply shift the economic burden of health care onto the employees by reducing wage growth, as health insurance is simply a part of total labor costs for the employer. The real benefit for the employer from providing health insurance is that the employee is chained to the employer and the health of the family of the employees is in the hands of the employer. Thats an enormous power advantage.

We already pay more in taxes for health care (Medicare, Medicaid, VA, health care for worker in the public sector) than all other developed countries pay in taxes for their national health care systems. Almost $5000 per person per year or $20 000 for a family of four in health care taxes now. Most countries pay around $3-4000 in taxes per person per year. Thats how corrupt and dysfunctional our system is.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:23 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,844 posts, read 3,055,922 times
Reputation: 6854
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Employers are not "burdened" now, its the employees who are. The employers simply shift the economic burden of health care onto the employees by reducing wage growth, as health insurance is simply a part of total labor costs for the employer. The real benefit for the employer from providing health insurance is that the employee is chained to the employer and the health of the family of the employees is in the hands of the employer. Thats an enormous power advantage.

We already pay more in taxes for health care (Medicare, Medicaid, VA, health care for worker in the public sector) than all other developed countries pay in taxes for their national health care systems. Almost $5000 per person per year or $20 000 for a family of four in health care taxes now. Thats how corrupt and dysfunctional our system is.
I see you quietly shifted from your "Europe recovered from WW2 in an instant" to now this.

Anyway, ask any employer and they will tell you that paying for employee's health insurance is a BIG burden. Of course since they have profits it isn't as big of a burden on them as it would be for the private individual, who is only going by a wage or a salary.

This is exactly what Bernie's bad plan is going to do: make the individual pay instead of the employer, who is at least in a better position to afford to pay it.

His plan is wack.
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