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Old 08-15-2019, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
9,034 posts, read 4,506,395 times
Reputation: 1434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
This is how the State pits us slaves against each other.

You shouldn't have your money stolen from you at gunpoint to begin with.
It is the chains no one sees ... therefore they don't exist. baffles the mind, it truly does.
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:34 PM
 
Location: SGV
25,234 posts, read 9,844,392 times
Reputation: 9830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
It is the chains no one sees ... therefore they don't exist. baffles the mind, it truly does.
My one sister has been mentally disabled from birth. She's closing in on 50 now.

I financially support her (bonus: I do it of my own free will...no guns to heads!). Yes, she still gets her $700 and EBT from Sammy every month.

I guess the warped logic from the pro-State crowd is that since I am able to comfortably support her I shouldn't have her receive those monthly benefits. OP may fall into that category.



Never mind the fact that it's my tax money she's receiving in the first place.

Never mind the fact that if I didn't have to pay taxes so Sammy could be a glorified middle man in wealth redistribution I could give her even more money (Sammy takes north of $700 per month from me...trust).

Never mind the fact that if I don't get that money for her it's just more for Sammy to use in its quest to decapitate an 8-year-old in Kabul, fine a man for ingesting a plant, or cage a woman for accepting money for sex.

And so on and so forth.

Listen my friends (fellow slaves), the State has no rights. It's a rights taker...never a giver.

If I could find an equitable way to redistribute that $700 + other monthly benefits my sister receives to other tax payers...I honestly would. I'm dead serious.

As it stands now I'm running my own personal charity known as my sister. She's a worthy cause.

Get as much as you can Ellis Bell and others. I don't hate the players. They are fellow victims. I hate the game. It was your money to begin with and if you get some of mine in the process at the very least Sammy doesn't get his paws on it. Without a logical way to parse out the stolen booty at the very least one tax victim should get a benefit. I'll defend that victim until the day I die.
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,467 posts, read 2,682,962 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvap View Post
If someone is a carpenter, has over 2 million in liquid assets, no debt on a home, wife is making 6 figures, collecting rent of over 10k /mo on owned properties, gets a hip done at 58 and collects 2800/month disability, Is the disability unethical or am I just jealous? If he can't do his job anymore, but still maintains his rentals, drags deer out of the woods, etc. etc.,.shouldn't he get a job as an estimator or something?
If he is not breaking any laws, it is ethical.

Now that being said, it seems to me that there is a hole in the law that allows that situation to exist. Isn't that what means testing is supposed to correct?
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
9,034 posts, read 4,506,395 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
My one sister has been mentally disabled from birth. She's closing in on 50 now.

I financially support her (bonus: I do it of my own free will...no guns to heads!). Yes, she still gets her $700 and EBT from Sammy every month.

I guess the warped logic from the pro-State crowd is that since I am able to comfortably support her I shouldn't have her receive those monthly benefits. OP may fall into that category.



Never mind the fact that it's my tax money she's receiving in the first place.

Never mind the fact that if I didn't have to pay taxes so Sammy could be a glorified middle man in wealth redistribution I could give her even more money (Sammy takes north of $700 per month from me...trust).

Never mind the fact that if I don't get that money for her it's just more for Sammy to use in its quest to decapitate an 8-year-old in Kabul, fine a man for ingesting a plant, or cage a woman for accepting money for sex.

And so on and so forth.

Listen my friends (fellow slaves), the State has no rights. It's a rights taker...never a giver.

If I could find an equitable way to redistribute that $700 + other monthly benefits my sister receives to other tax payers...I honestly would. I'm dead serious.

As it stands now I'm running my own personal charity known as my sister. She's a worthy cause.

Get as much as you can Ellis Bell and others. I don't hate the players. They are fellow victims. I hate the game. It was your money to begin with and if you get some of mine in the process at the very least Sammy doesn't get his paws on it. Without a logical way to parse out the stolen booty at the very least one tax victim should get a benefit. I'll defend that victim until the day I die.
Quote:
Never mind the fact that it's my tax money she's receiving in the first place.
Several years back I went to draw food stamps. The amount of money I received in food aid, was the exact amount that is taken from my checks each month --- I kid you not. I later invested in stocks/retirement and I didn't want Sammy all up in my business. But what I learned in that length of time was an eye opener. However, I did not need that experience for me not to see the logic and the reality of what is really going on.
Quote:
Get as much as you can Ellis Bell and others.
I have to qualify and what I was recently diagnose with, isn't on their list of terminal chronic health issues, that qualify. So I get 0 assist.

My vacation is over and so I have gone back to work, wondering what is going to happen the first time my co-workers have to dial, 9-1-1.

The prelude to this was when my husband was in the military --- one learns, when the government (makes an error) owes you money, they take their sweet time; when it is the other way around, they suck it up out of your money earned and leave you with nothing.

40 years of working and paying money I didn't opt into paying and the government has opt out of giving back ... and still no one sees the chains. I don't know that I will ever understand why.


Did you ever see the move "Bourne Identity", in it where he says, 'look at what they make you give' ... ? I went, yep, I know that's right.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:35 PM
 
Location: SGV
25,234 posts, read 9,844,392 times
Reputation: 9830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Several years back I went to draw food stamps. The amount of money I received in food aid, was the exact amount that is taken from my checks each month --- I kid you not. I later invested in stocks/retirement and I didn't want Sammy all up in my business. But what I learned in that length of time was an eye opener. However, I did not need that experience for me not to see the logic and the reality of what is really going on.
I have to qualify and what I was recently diagnose with, isn't on their list of terminal chronic health issues, that qualify. So I get 0 assist.

My vacation is over and so I have gone back to work, wondering what is going to happen the first time my co-workers have to dial, 9-1-1.

The prelude to this was when my husband was in the military --- one learns, when the government (makes an error) owes you money, they take their sweet time; when it is the other way around, they suck it up out of your money earned and leave you with nothing.

40 years of working and paying money I didn't opt into paying and the government has opt out of giving back ... and still no one sees the chains. I don't know that I will ever understand why.


Did you ever see the move "Bourne Identity", in it where he says, 'look at what they make you give' ... ? I went, yep, I know that's right.
My sympathies. And I mean that. And spot on with the "Bourne Identity" reference.

Even if you know the man behind the curtain isn't real you have to pretend and still hold out hope that the ball will bounce your way by some miracle. Because as your story and millions more illustrate it isn't based on logic or morality it's just that sometimes the State accidentally helps one of its slaves in the execution of its nefarious agenda. Your condition didn't make its list. All this time there was no finish line yet you were forced to run the marathon.

Again, how can't people see this and rebel? I simply don't know.

Really, despite being a "heartless capitalist" (though I would argue that the compassion and expression of love for your fellow man can be best...no, make that can only...be expressed via the consistent embrace of non-aggression and property rights) I feel sympathy for all the victims of the State...even the statists.

Maybe especially the statists because when the SHTF and Sammy claims ignorance to your plight you are now faced with some dire condition/circumstance (as you are now) the statist has to deal with that bad situation and the betrayal by master. Call it a massive case of collective Stockholm Syndrome. And it ain't pretty when the paradigm comes crashing down on your head.

I can talk a good game but I'm pretty confident in my ability to play it too. And it's not like Sammy hasn't shown his true colors to me before. I'm a poor minority kid from the ghetto. This guy had a hard on for exploiting and pushing me around throughout the first 20ish years of my life. I got over the fear quickly. I had no choice but to and it's why I became so successful as an adult. A few more years of searching before I found the truth of anarchism (no man has the right to rule over another). I'll blame the delay on my public school education.

It's my sister that I worry about. I'll laugh in Sammy's face when he's raping me. There's nothing he can do that will surprise or even hurt me at this point. She is vulnerable and can't defend herself when Leviathan comes knocking.

Quote:
Besides, I was now getting—as I have said—a dollar and fifty cents per day. I contracted for it, worked for it, earned it, collected it; it was paid to me, and it was rightfully my own; and yet, upon every returning Saturday night, this money—my own hard earnings, every cent of it—was demanded of me, and taken from me by Master Hugh. He did not earn it; he had no hand in earning it; why, then, should he have it? I owed him nothing. He had given me no schooling, and I had received from him only my food and raiment; and for these, my services were supposed to pay, from the first. The right to take my earnings, was the right of the robber. He had the power to compel me to give him the fruits of my labor, and this power was his only right in the case. I became more and more dissatisfied with this state of things…

To make a contented slave, you must make a thoughtless one. It is necessary to darken his moral and mental vision, and, as far as possible, to annihilate his power of reason. He must be able to detect no inconsistencies in slavery. The man that takes his earnings, must be able to convince him that he has a perfect right to do so. It must not depend upon mere force; the slave must know no Higher Law than his master’s will. The whole relationship must not only demonstrate, to his mind, its necessity, but its absolute rightfulness. If there be one crevice through which a single drop can fall, it will certainly rust off the slave’s chain.
- Frederick Douglass
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:42 AM
 
8,980 posts, read 3,998,306 times
Reputation: 1767
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvap View Post
If someone is a carpenter, has over 2 million in liquid assets, no debt on a home, wife is making 6 figures, collecting rent of over 10k /mo on owned properties, gets a hip done at 58 and collects 2800/month disability, Is the disability unethical or am I just jealous? If he can't do his job anymore, but still maintains his rentals, drags deer out of the woods, etc. etc.,.shouldn't he get a job as an estimator or something?
I didn't read all the posts. If it's a private disability policy it may be all legit depending on the policy details. I've done similar in the past.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:45 AM
 
8,980 posts, read 3,998,306 times
Reputation: 1767
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
If he is not breaking any laws, it is ethical.

Now that being said, it seems to me that there is a hole in the law that allows that situation to exist. Isn't that what means testing is supposed to correct?
My policy was based on my occupation as an internist. The policy paid in full no matter how much money I made doing something else (for X number of years). Even if somehow I could work as a better paid orthopedist!
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:59 AM
 
37,725 posts, read 16,343,113 times
Reputation: 8560
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvap View Post
If someone is a carpenter, has over 2 million in liquid assets, no debt on a home, wife is making 6 figures, collecting rent of over 10k /mo on owned properties, gets a hip done at 58 and collects 2800/month disability, Is the disability unethical or am I just jealous? If he can't do his job anymore, but still maintains his rentals, drags deer out of the woods, etc. etc.,.shouldn't he get a job as an estimator or something?
"and collects 2800/month disability,"

Where are the disability payments coming from?

If he has been paying his insurance every month and that is where it is coming from...
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
9,034 posts, read 4,506,395 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
My sympathies. And I mean that. And spot on with the "Bourne Identity" reference.

Even if you know the man behind the curtain isn't real you have to pretend and still hold out hope that the ball will bounce your way by some miracle. Because as your story and millions more illustrate it isn't based on logic or morality it's just that sometimes the State accidentally helps one of its slaves in the execution of its nefarious agenda. Your condition didn't make its list. All this time there was no finish line yet you were forced to run the marathon.

Again, how can't people see this and rebel? I simply don't know.

Really, despite being a "heartless capitalist" (though I would argue that the compassion and expression of love for your fellow man can be best...no, make that can only...be expressed via the consistent embrace of non-aggression and property rights) I feel sympathy for all the victims of the State...even the statists.

Maybe especially the statists because when the SHTF and Sammy claims ignorance to your plight you are now faced with some dire condition/circumstance (as you are now) the statist has to deal with that bad situation and the betrayal by master. Call it a massive case of collective Stockholm Syndrome. And it ain't pretty when the paradigm comes crashing down on your head.

I can talk a good game but I'm pretty confident in my ability to play it too. And it's not like Sammy hasn't shown his true colors to me before. I'm a poor minority kid from the ghetto. This guy had a hard on for exploiting and pushing me around throughout the first 20ish years of my life. I got over the fear quickly. I had no choice but to and it's why I became so successful as an adult. A few more years of searching before I found the truth of anarchism (no man has the right to rule over another). I'll blame the delay on my public school education.

It's my sister that I worry about. I'll laugh in Sammy's face when he's raping me. There's nothing he can do that will surprise or even hurt me at this point. She is vulnerable and can't defend herself when Leviathan comes knocking.
Quote:
Besides, I was now getting—as I have said—a dollar and fifty cents per day. I contracted for it, worked for it, earned it, collected it; it was paid to me, and it was rightfully my own; and yet, upon every returning Saturday night, this money—my own hard earnings, every cent of it—was demanded of me, and taken from me by Master Hugh. He did not earn it; he had no hand in earning it; why, then, should he have it? I owed him nothing. He had given me no schooling, and I had received from him only my food and raiment; and for these, my services were supposed to pay, from the first. The right to take my earnings, was the right of the robber. He had the power to compel me to give him the fruits of my labor, and this power was his only right in the case. I became more and more dissatisfied with this state of things…

To make a contented slave, you must make a thoughtless one. It is necessary to darken his moral and mental vision, and, as far as possible, to annihilate his power of reason. He must be able to detect no inconsistencies in slavery. The man that takes his earnings, must be able to convince him that he has a perfect right to do so. It must not depend upon mere force; the slave must know no Higher Law than his master’s will. The whole relationship must not only demonstrate, to his mind, its necessity, but its absolute rightfulness. If there be one crevice through which a single drop can fall, it will certainly rust off the slave’s chain.
- Frederick Douglass
(my emphasis)
Quote:
Maybe especially the statists because when the SHTF and Sammy claims ignorance to your plight you are now faced with some dire condition/circumstance (as you are now) the statist has to deal with that bad situation and the betrayal by master. Call it a massive case of collective Stockholm Syndrome. And it ain't pretty when the paradigm comes crashing down on your head.
I got involuntarily inducted ...
Quote:
I'll blame the delay on my public school education.
The last two years of my high school was spent in a Christian (Baptist) school. My parents caught me smoking marijuana and yanked me out of public school. The funny thing about that move that my parents did, I found better marijuana circulating in the Christian school. But I digress ...

Anyway I was going to say may be I missed my indoctrination, but my brother 8 years my senior he finished high school and his indoctrination did not take. He is an interesting feller ... and that is about all I can say on him, because while sometimes I think he is way out in left field, some things he has talked about sadly will ring true.

I can only summarize the cat story (he would do it far more justice) but a stray had kittens on his property. He was feeding stray and kittens on his front porch. Animal control showed up and the kittens nor the cat had had their shots ... she wrote him a ticket. He did try to fight it in court, but failed. (I know you can fill in, in between the lines the details)
Quote:
It's my sister that I worry about.
She is lucky to have you for her brother ...
Quote:
when Leviathan comes knocking
That is the second time I have heard that this year and both times I had to look it up and both times I thought, I should know that reference.

I gave my life to Christ at age 9 and I didn't know what that meant until age 25. God has shown Himself to me 5 times in my life. All those times I did not connect the dots until after the experience ... but once those dots were connected, I began to see things with a bit different perspective and one of those is where the government wants to act as God, in the way they see Him, not in the way He is. People (not every one, there are more of me) see Him the way the church tells them and the church got it wrong.
Quote:
A few more years of searching before I found the truth of anarchism
And I found God ... we see it much the same, but we found it, through two different insights, that's all.

If I look at it the way the church teaches in that God is my master, I can't serve two masters though. I must choose ... but how can I give my first fruits to God --- when the government takes those 'first' fruits? It's a conundrum. (there was a preacher who spoke of tithing, said one can give their first 10% and money doesn't come into play, he was fired from his preaching job at that church)

God is not my master, He is (my Father) the one Who takes care (proven time over again) of me ... the government on the other hand, is the master who takes my wages, my time, etc. and fails at the taking care of me part.

I failed indoctrination both times ... neither the church nor the government and I use to say, one has to have a brain, before it can be washed ...

I've been listening to (news mostly) 50 years flashback (moon walk, woodstock, Vietnam war) it was a time we were going to (MAG) change the world ... we got knocked on our arse, instead.

The op has an issue (is it ethical) of someone who may be self sufficient being paid back money he paid involuntarily to the government insurance, without a question on whether it was ethical for the government to take the person's money in the first place ... seals my 50 years long walk with the knowing .... "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose ... " ~ Janis Joplin ~
Quote:
My sympathies.
ty ...

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 08-16-2019 at 11:18 PM..
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:07 PM
 
466 posts, read 96,195 times
Reputation: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvap View Post
I know 4 people, and I don't know many people, who did this, and every one of them is just as able to do his previous job, after the health issue. Just because you paid your SS insurance all those years, doesn't mean you deserve to collect it back. That's why it's called insurance.These laws must be changed along with a asset limit on collecting normal SS.
What about millionaires who receive highly subsidized Obamacare?
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