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Old Yesterday, 09:14 AM
 
10,148 posts, read 6,954,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
lol You keep saying it is still an issue. I'm saying it is not. Again the welfare state hurts all groups.


lol You can stop with the external and internal garbage anytime.
Again racism isn't stopping kids from finishing high school
Again racism isn't stopping blacks from working full time
Again racism isn't encouraging blacks to have kids out of wedlock and forcing them to abandon their kids.

Welfare and handouts are.


Got behind as far as income and opportunity. That was over 150 years ago.
No I am not contradictory. That is something you've made yet again. Again I specifically said slavery isn't an issue now.


They why DIDN"T the rate go up dramatically after slavery ended and why DID it go up dramatically after 1965? You wont answer that you'll continue to deflect and make things up. It's childish.


No I won't. But you will continue to make things up because you don't care about the truth and refuse to respond to any of the facts I have presented.

No I haven't. That is something you've made up because you don't care about the truth and refuse to respond to any of the facts I have presented.

The root cause is the welfare state.

Sooner or later you will admit you have no basis for your false race card playing and will actually respond to the facts I have presented.

So slavery is keeping hispanics down too?

You said single parent homes beget single parent homes and YOU said blacks started off behind because of slavery. That's its!!!! story over. That is the complete explanation of the racial inequality (of single parent homes today. Context). The inequality was created during and from white oppression of blacks. End of Story! Since then, the rates have steadily risen for all racial groups. I am not explaining the RATES....I am explaining the racial GAPS between the races. If you say that most socioeconomic problems emanate from single parent homes and blacks have so many more problems in degree.....then slavery is the root cause. When saying the cause of something is racism....that is not saying that the cause is TODAYS racism. It does not change what race the racism was coming from, however. So yeah....I am blaming whitey as you say. Are you now saying you are going to walk back from your statement that single parent homes incubates more single parent homes (paraphrasing) and your statement that blacks started off behind (meaning with higher rates) because of slavery? Was there ever a reset or reparations that resulted in black rates reaching parity with whites....only to be later made unequal by the great society and welfare?



Most Hispanics in America are at most 3 generations. Their mass is fairly new relative to blacks and whites who most are at least 8 or 9 generations deep in America. Its apples to oranges as they come from a different land and culture recently and spoke a different language.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; Yesterday at 09:24 AM..

 
Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,053 posts, read 3,733,135 times
Reputation: 4079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Yeah I know. All humans have human nature....but some people think one races nature is superior to another. If we are all the SAME....CLONES....we would all act and react the same to certain stimuli. Hence, the only explanation for differences between HUMANS....would be the different stimuli they have been exposed to. That is what I have been arguing. BLacks have been exposed to racist stimuli which impacted our humanity, as a collective, to the degree that it created socioeconomic inequalities with those HUMANS of a different race not exposed to the same racist stimuli.



Your explanation of things discounts the external stimuli theory and by default.....selects the internal stimuli theory of inferiority of human nature between blacks and whites. If we all have the same nature, as humans, then exposed to the same things we would all respond the same and there would be no inequalities if we all experienced the same things in degree and kind. Hence....given that there is racial inequality of outcomes.....either our human nature is different and or our experiences are different.



Do you see how contradictory you are? In one breath you say that single parent families breed single parent families. You then say black families got behind due to slavery (white enslavement of blacks....what you call whitey). However, then you say that is not a factor now. Well...if single parent homes produce single parent homes and slavery created and results in more single parent homes....THAT EXPLAINS WHY THERE IS MORE NOW!!! Yes....it have to do with today because there was never a RESET to set blacks equal after slavery ended. Rather, there was continued oppression.


You are going to disappear from this debate, because you have been disproved or proven to be arguing that blacks are inferior.......but you will show up in another discussing blaming black problems on single parent homes....instead of the ROOT cause of it.
The root cause of single parent homes is the ease of getting a divorce, the ease of going to jail for selling drugs and not paying your child support, the ease of ignoring the church and forgetting about family values, the difficulties of the child support system and the driving out of fathers from the kids lives. All of these are "reasons" (or excuses if you so choose) but the ROOT cause of single parent homes, if you drilled down to the roots would be a number of reasons, some of those listed above.
 
Old Yesterday, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,053 posts, read 3,733,135 times
Reputation: 4079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
You said single parent homes beget single parent homes and YOU said blacks started off behind because of slavery. That's its!!!! story over. That is the complete explanation of the racial inequality (of single parent homes today. Context). The inequality was created during and from white oppression of blacks. End of Story! Since then, the rates have steadily risen for all racial groups. I am not explaining the RATES....I am explaining the racial GAPS between the races. If you say that most socioeconomic problems emanate from single parent homes and blacks have so many more problems in degree.....then slavery is the root cause. When saying the cause of something is racism....that is not saying that the cause is TODAYS racism. It does not change what race the racism was coming from, however. So yeah....I am blaming whitey as you say. Are you now saying you are going to walk back from your statement that single parent homes incubates more single parent homes (paraphrasing) and your statement that blacks started off behind (meaning with higher rates) because of slavery? Was there ever a reset or reparations that resulted in black rates reaching parity with whites....only to be later made unequal by the great society and welfare?



Most Hispanics in America are at most 3 generations. Their mass is fairly new relative to blacks and whites who most are at least 8 or 9 generations deep in America. Its apples to oranges as they come from a different land and culture recently and spoke a different language.
When more than several folks are telling one person that they are playing the race card, at some point perhaps the majority have got it right.... Just sayin...

Being educated on the importance that race played in the founding of a country is a wonderful hobby I'm sure, don't know if it pays you well or whatever, but you don't seem any worse for the wear from all of us racist white guys.

The argument of reparations is never going to happen, so why play this race card?
The argument that black people suck due to racists beginnings of the country is never going to help the black community, so why play this race card?
The argument that blacks are victims and need to be propped up is already being done, how has it helped and how can it ever be effective if the blacks are so savagely discriminated against? So why try? Let's cut all funding...
 
Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM
 
10,148 posts, read 6,954,283 times
Reputation: 4256
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
When more than several folks are telling one person that they are playing the race card, at some point perhaps the majority have got it right.... Just sayin...

Being educated on the importance that race played in the founding of a country is a wonderful hobby I'm sure, don't know if it pays you well or whatever, but you don't seem any worse for the wear from all of us racist white guys.

The argument of reparations is never going to happen, so why play this race card?
The argument that black people suck due to racists beginnings of the country is never going to help the black community, so why play this race card?
The argument that blacks are victims and need to be propped up is already being done, how has it helped and how can it ever be effective if the blacks are so savagely discriminated against? So why try? Let's cut all funding...

Because its NOT AN ARGUMENT, but rather, an EXPLANATION. Your explanation is blacks are inferior. Maybe if so many people like you did not keep preaching that, indirectly (Never going to happen either) then there would eventually be no need to play the race card.
 
Old Yesterday, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,053 posts, read 3,733,135 times
Reputation: 4079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Because its NOT AN ARGUMENT, but rather, an EXPLANATION. Your explanation is blacks are inferior. Maybe if so many people like you did not keep preaching that, indirectly (Never going to happen either) then there would eventually be no need to play the race card.
Not once have I ever implied that people of a certain color or pigment are inferior to any person. Whether you are seeing that demon is up to you, but there's never even been a thought like that that's crossed my mind or implied in my words.

I am a person who believes that no matter where you are in your life, that you can immediately improve your situation by action. It's that simple. No matter where you came from, where you are, or where you're going. If you want to change, then change. Everything other than doing what you want to do is a waste of time and effort. Just do what you want to do and enjoy your life...
 
Old Yesterday, 11:12 AM
 
10,148 posts, read 6,954,283 times
Reputation: 4256
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
Not once have I ever implied that people of a certain color or pigment are inferior to any person. Whether you are seeing that demon is up to you, but there's never even been a thought like that that's crossed my mind or implied in my words.

I am a person who believes that no matter where you are in your life, that you can immediately improve your situation by action. It's that simple. No matter where you came from, where you are, or where you're going. If you want to change, then change. Everything other than doing what you want to do is a waste of time and effort. Just do what you want to do and enjoy your life...

I believe that as well. That begs the question, in explaining deep socioeconomic racial inequality, why some races get or believe that more than others to the degree that persistent racial inequality continues. If its not because of what happened in the past due to racism....then what? African Immigrants seem to do fairly well in America. Why not African Americans if not the conditioning of beliefs via years of racial oppression? If an inequality of "belief" is the cause of racial inequality of outcomes....what is the root cause of the racial inequality of beliefs? What conditioned blacks not to believe in all this opportunity that exists in the way that whites believe in it?


I don't understand what is so hard about any of this to see. There is a reason for everything. Thus, there has to be a reason why there are big socioeconomic gaps between blacks and whites in things like poverty, for example. Is it because blacks were treated unequally in this society or because blacks are inherently unequal? It can only be one or the other because mathematically you cannot create an inequality from an equality unless the sides are treated differently. If the sides were never equal to begin with, then the inequality was not caused by different treatment.



Maybe the problem is that you have adopted a conservative mantra that does not fit the black scenario. Maybe you need to give up that mantra as it relates to blacks because until you do that, its going to sound like racism, for when you dismiss the external causes as "excuses" and a "card game".....you are saying its INTERNAL.....something inferior in blacks that results in inferior outcomes relative to whites.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; Yesterday at 11:30 AM..
 
Old Yesterday, 11:33 AM
 
12,663 posts, read 3,966,121 times
Reputation: 3832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
You have already shown that you believe that blacks are inferior. I have already stated that I believe the lack of parity was caused by racial oppression from whites. Really not much else to say. You are not going to change my view and I am sure I am not going to change yours. My goal is just to break people down into the two schools of thought. That has been accomplished with you.
So you're just here to scapegoat whites and call them all racist for preventing black parity to whites? You never want to consider what blacks are doing and not doing to themselves. You're not really interested in any solutions for blacks.

I'll tell you what I really think. I as a white person am not going to accept any responsibility or blame on me or my identity group for blacks or any other group. All I'm really concerned about is what people in power are doing against white people like me.
 
Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
 
10,148 posts, read 6,954,283 times
Reputation: 4256
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
So you're just here to scapegoat whites and call them all racist for preventing black parity to whites? You never want to consider what blacks are doing and not doing to themselves. You're not really interested in any solutions for blacks.

I'll tell you what I really think. I as a white person am not going to accept any responsibility or blame on me or my identity group for blacks or any other group. All I'm really concerned about is what people in power are doing against white people like me.

I am not here to blame any living white person as the cause (although SOME living might are complicit). I am here to say that white racism is the ROOT of the socioeconomic inequalities between blacks and whites today. If that is not true....then blacks must be inferior by default. You can call it scapegoating, race card, victim mentality, etc.....I prefer the term...TRUTH. If its a LIE....then that means the truth is inferiority.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; Yesterday at 11:50 AM..
 
Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
 
12,663 posts, read 3,966,121 times
Reputation: 3832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I am not here to blame any living white person as the cause (although SOME living might are complicit). I am here to say that white racism is the ROOT of the socioeconomic inequalities between blacks and whites today. If that is not true....then blacks must be inferior by default. You can call it scapegoating, race card, victim mentality, etc.....I prefer the term...TRUTH. If its a LIE....then that means the truth is inferiority.
You wouldn't have to conclude inferiority. Putting aside the concept blacks are doing it to themselves, blacks and whites are just inherently different, as they are both different from Hispanics, Asians etc. Heck, whites and blacks even differ within their group, and there's more economic disparity within races than between them. And one shouldn't expect all groups to have the exact same outcomes. Like I said, Asians and Jews have socioeconomic superiority to whites, and similar to you I partly blame "racism" against whites for it, but I certainly don't feel whites are inferior to Asians and ethnic Jews.
 
Old Yesterday, 12:37 PM
 
10,148 posts, read 6,954,283 times
Reputation: 4256
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
You wouldn't have to conclude inferiority. Putting aside the concept blacks are doing it to themselves, blacks and whites are just inherently different, as they are both different from Hispanics, Asians etc. Heck, whites and blacks even differ within their group, and there's more economic disparity within races than between them. And one shouldn't expect all groups to have the exact same outcomes. Like I said, Asians and Jews have socioeconomic superiority to whites, and similar to you I partly blame "racism" against whites for it, but I certainly don't feel whites are inferior to Asians and ethnic Jews.

We have already established that you see inherent genetic differences between the race and that these differences can result in INFERIOR outcomes between races. You, however, are in search for a euphemism, to call it, that does not sound like racism or a racist. Good luck with that.



Asians are a filtered group into America. Most come over on high tech work visas or as students. They don't represent the mean or average Asian performance in the world. Judaism is a religion. There are many Ethiopian Jews, white jews, etc. Its not a "race", just like Hispanic is not a race.


Maybe the belief of being Gods chosen people creates a self fulfilling superiority complex? I do, STRONGLY, believe in the power of belief and self fulling prophecy. If you believe you are superior and can get others to believe you are superior...you will be superior. Its the placebo effect. The nocebo effect works to. If you can convince a group of people that they are inferior and you believe they are inferior.....the result of their outcomes will be inferior (see America's treatment and denigration of blacks).
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