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Old 08-12-2019, 03:04 AM
 
238 posts, read 51,516 times
Reputation: 309

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There are finally some diverse colleges where ALL races and economic levels graduate at or above levels of whites. My alma mater at The University of California Riverside is one of them. Is topps on the new Social Mobility Index added to US News ranks. UC Riverside jumped 39 spots on 2019 US News ranks (to #85 Nationally)...largest gain of ANY college in the nation! ALL of the other UC locations scored well on the new Social Mobility metric. Hopefully it will result in future parity of all races/economic levels in education levels and we won't be discussing this anymore.


https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2018/0...-news-rankings
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:29 AM
 
3,415 posts, read 1,672,175 times
Reputation: 3555
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
Mind giving us an insight into the Hispanic subculture? I am assuming you are aware that you are more of an exception than the rule. Hispanics on average underperform in school almost as much as blacks. I am convinced it has something to do with the cultural attitude toward education.
Insecurity. It can lead to many maladaptive behaviors and it doesn't help to be a minority. What helped me was that I was female, attractive (I smiled a lot) and was willing to learn, so I had people helping me academically and mentally. My mentor was a Hispanic male who is a successful engineer.

ETA: Now couple this with teachers who can't teach but insist they were teaching when all they were doing was regurgitating information. I remember having to read, problem solve, and identify points of confusion before I went to class. Many of my questions would be answered, but it was clear the teachers had a superficial understanding of the topic or they didn't know how to break it down to a student who didn't read ahead of time.

I used to volunteer at my daughter's school. She is a minority and she is white (I married a European.) One of the most difficult concepts was making inferences. The teacher was using a model that expected children to create inferences, which was basically listing facts, and then making an inference. I felt like it was too big of a jump.

What I found was that these children needed a framework to help them think inside of a box so when they are given information, they compared it to the information in the framework. This would then guide them to a conclusion, which they can then debate. This is where you think outside of the box. Basically, their language was expanded. (I was actually quite proud of myself for figuring this out.)

That whole concept of thinking outside of the box cannot be done unless we give students a framework. The framework itself can later be challenged. What I am getting at is education appears to be valued more among certain races, that doesn't mean a good education was received. Yet, they are hailed as an example of valuing education.

Last edited by elyn02; 08-12-2019 at 04:58 AM..
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Japan
11,057 posts, read 4,568,657 times
Reputation: 7068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supachai
It's not just my opinion. Find me just one school district in the USA where Blacks don't score at the bottom. Find just one. Should be easy to do if I'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossify View Post
I suspect you will only find individual schools that meet your criteria, but not any whole/entire school districts. I have researched over 100 schools, closely paying attention to race achievement, and have indeed found individual schools with high performing minority kids, and they are rare, and I have found them in the DC areas.
Really... you have found a school in the DC area where blacks, on average, score above Hispanics, whites or Asians? What is the name of that school?
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:49 AM
 
Location: Long Island
33,927 posts, read 14,284,092 times
Reputation: 7286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supachai View Post
It's not just my opinion. Find me just one school district in the USA where Blacks don't score at the bottom. Find just one. Should be easy to do if I'm wrong.
Well if its not opinion then you should supply the facts that led you to that comment, it sounds an awful lot like William Shockley.
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:59 AM
 
67,213 posts, read 30,851,624 times
Reputation: 8827
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Dept of Education has lots of charts.

And it pretty much all falls into the same pattern
Asians, Whites, Hispanics, Blacks

That is for Math and Reading
Correct.

Percent of 12th grade students of each race/ethnicity who are proficient or above, by race/ethnicity group:

Mathematics:

Overall: 26%

Asian/Pacific Islander: 47%
White: 33%
American Indian/Alaska Native: 12%
Hispanic: 12%
Black: 7%

Reading:

Overall: 38%


Asian/Pacific Islander: 47%
White: 47%
American Indian/Alaska Native: 26%
Hispanic: 23%
Black: 16%

National Assessment of Educational Progress - NAEP - 12th Grade Mathematics and Reading

BTW, it isn't a funding issue. Many school districts (e.g., Camden, NJ, Washington, DC, etc.) spend $20,000+ per student per year and still yield abysmal results.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Boston
8,447 posts, read 2,475,761 times
Reputation: 5996
School sounds like a hellhole. Inmates are in charge of the asylum.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:54 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 2,670,336 times
Reputation: 6611
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
Insecurity. It can lead to many maladaptive behaviors and it doesn't help to be a minority. What helped me was that I was female, attractive (I smiled a lot) and was willing to learn, so I had people helping me academically and mentally. My mentor was a Hispanic male who is a successful engineer.

ETA: Now couple this with teachers who can't teach but insist they were teaching when all they were doing was regurgitating information. I remember having to read, problem solve, and identify points of confusion before I went to class. Many of my questions would be answered, but it was clear the teachers had a superficial understanding of the topic or they didn't know how to break it down to a student who didn't read ahead of time.

I used to volunteer at my daughter's school. She is a minority and she is white (I married a European.) One of the most difficult concepts was making inferences. The teacher was using a model that expected children to create inferences, which was basically listing facts, and then making an inference. I felt like it was too big of a jump.

What I found was that these children needed a framework to help them think inside of a box so when they are given information, they compared it to the information in the framework. This would then guide them to a conclusion, which they can then debate. This is where you think outside of the box. Basically, their language was expanded. (I was actually quite proud of myself for figuring this out.)

That whole concept of thinking outside of the box cannot be done unless we give students a framework. The framework itself can later be challenged. What I am getting at is education appears to be valued more among certain races, that doesn't mean a good education was received. Yet, they are hailed as an example of valuing education.
Thank you for your insight. I hope I don't appear to attack or force you to share it. I firmly believe that in order to solve anything, we need to talk about it even if it feels uncomfortable or not very PC.

When my family immigrated here to the US, we lived in a heavily Mexican area. Our schools were heavily black and Mexican. My high school was pretty much what people would describe as ghetto.

There were a few Asian kids. We were bullied endlessly. Easy targets. I hated having to go to the bathroom during breaks and being in the locker room during gym. Got shoved around quite a bit. And it did not help that I did not speak a word of English. The kids figured this out pretty quick and took full advantage of it. I would get punched around then they would report to the teachers that I was the one punching people. I never lifted a finger (our parents taught us to lay low and not stir trouble) and yet I all of a sudden got detention. I even got suspended once or twice. Been a while. So, obviously the adults in school didn't care all that much about finding the truth.

Talk to some Asian people. You will find that my case wasn't unique. It's actually pretty common. I know the stereotype is we are ayppose to be like Bruce Lee and can jump 30 feet into the air when we fight and beat 20 opponents. But in reality, we are pretty passive.

I never fought back and I got suspended. Had I fought back, I would have ended up in juvie.

My point is you will find that Asian kids go thru just as much crap as anyone else. And we made it out ok. I still went to a university and became an engineer. My brother even went further and became an executive, and I know he had zero support when he went to school. He was bullied just as much as I was.

There has to be more than lack of support to explain the under performance of blacks and Hispanics. Statistics tell us it doesn't matter if a school is poor or rich, blacks and Hispanics always end up at the bottom. I know it's not a matter of IQ because I've lived in black and Hispanics area and people are pretty darn smart there.

One last thing. My husband is white. Let's refer to him as Robert. Not his real name. He came from a family of minimum wage workers. Both of his sisters dropped out of school when they got pregnant. His brother is a mess. His real dad has many children by many women across several states. So, obviously, school isn't a top priority to them.

Back when we were still dating, it took a while to get my parents to accept him. Status means a lot in my family. When they finally did, I hatched up this plan. Sell the house I was living in at the time and we both move into my parents house. I pitched my parents this idea by telling them we would "pay rent" by paying for their mortgage and expenses. What I really wanted happen was I wanted him to quit his warehouse job and go to school. He was never good at school, but he always wanted to experience the college life that we experienced. He was early 20s at the time. In other words, I literally wanted to assimilate him into our asian family.

So, we moved in to my parents house. I worked my job as an engineer. Parents were already retired. And Robert went to a local community college. My parents treated him like a son. And he aced all his classes. He then transfered to a university. Moved into their dorm. Got to experience what the rest of us experienced, a college life of classes, friends, and parties. We even sent him to Europe for a semester to study abroad.

He graduated with high honors and got a job right away as a PR professional. When he graduated, we invited everybody from his side and my side. Everyone in my family came. They flew in and got hotels just to attend the graduation ceremony the next morning. No one on his side showed up. A lot of them lived closer to the school than we did, but they couldn't be bothered to come. Education wasn't a priority to them.

We then bought another house and moved out. It worked out wonderfully. Whatever my parents did to get us to do well in school and be successful in life also worked for Robert.

I know a lot of people scoff at annecdotes. But I feel it is important to share this chapter of our lives. My husband is white. Grew up in more of a white trash environment. Did not do well in school. All it took was for him to live with my parents and had them treat him like a son to get him to succeed in school and professional life.

So, obviously, there is something very different between the kind of parenting my parents do and the kind of parenting underperforming kids' parents do.

I would love to get an opinion on this by experts, as I am an engineer and have zero background in psychology or anything else of the sort.
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Japan
11,057 posts, read 4,568,657 times
Reputation: 7068
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
There has to be more than lack of support to explain the under performance of blacks and Hispanics. Statistics tell us it doesn't matter if a school is poor or rich, blacks and Hispanics always end up at the bottom. I know it's not a matter of IQ because I've lived in black and Hispanics area and people are pretty darn smart there.
Meaning... if you learn that blacks and Hispanics score significantly lower on average on IQ tests than whites and Asians, you won't believe it because some people who lived near you seemed smart when you talked with them? You realize this puts you in the same boat with those who "know" global warming is a hoax because the weather at their house last winter was cold?
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:45 AM
 
2,017 posts, read 508,980 times
Reputation: 1811
In Canada we don't have this problem of segregated school systems based on income and race. In Alberta as far as I know, each student is allocated a certain amount of money for their education by the government and they can choose to go into any school they want. Student academic performance is rated some of the best in the world in math and science and even some officials representing public school districts from the U.S went up to Alberta to figure out if they could replicate the system.

There is 3 different classes for each academic subject (bottom performing, average performing and academic performing). Depending on your grades in middle school and up, they determine which level better fits your level of learning, and then your kid goes into that class with peers who are at same level as you. From there, they give you many opportunities to climb up the ladder by upgrading to better courses that are accepted by colleges and universities. I had many second chances in the Alberta school system and it paid off for me where I was accepted into one of the hardest programs at a technical college up there. Which is amazing considering I grew up poor and my parents didn't care much about my education growing up. The Alberta public school system saved me in the end.
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,962 posts, read 32,677,803 times
Reputation: 20309
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
Thank you for your insight. I hope I don't appear to attack or force you to share it. I firmly believe that in order to solve anything, we need to talk about it even if it feels uncomfortable or not very PC.

When my family immigrated here to the US, we lived in a heavily Mexican area. Our schools were heavily black and Mexican. My high school was pretty much what people would describe as ghetto.

There were a few Asian kids. We were bullied endlessly. Easy targets. I hated having to go to the bathroom during breaks and being in the locker room during gym. Got shoved around quite a bit. And it did not help that I did not speak a word of English. The kids figured this out pretty quick and took full advantage of it. I would get punched around then they would report to the teachers that I was the one punching people. I never lifted a finger (our parents taught us to lay low and not stir trouble) and yet I all of a sudden got detention. I even got suspended once or twice. Been a while. So, obviously the adults in school didn't care all that much about finding the truth.

Talk to some Asian people. You will find that my case wasn't unique. It's actually pretty common. I know the stereotype is we are ayppose to be like Bruce Lee and can jump 30 feet into the air when we fight and beat 20 opponents. But in reality, we are pretty passive.

I never fought back and I got suspended. Had I fought back, I would have ended up in juvie.

My point is you will find that Asian kids go thru just as much crap as anyone else. And we made it out ok. I still went to a university and became an engineer. My brother even went further and became an executive, and I know he had zero support when he went to school. He was bullied just as much as I was.

There has to be more than lack of support to explain the under performance of blacks and Hispanics. Statistics tell us it doesn't matter if a school is poor or rich, blacks and Hispanics always end up at the bottom. I know it's not a matter of IQ because I've lived in black and Hispanics area and people are pretty darn smart there.

One last thing. My husband is white. Let's refer to him as Robert. Not his real name. He came from a family of minimum wage workers. Both of his sisters dropped out of school when they got pregnant. His brother is a mess. His real dad has many children by many women across several states. So, obviously, school isn't a top priority to them.

Back when we were still dating, it took a while to get my parents to accept him. Status means a lot in my family. When they finally did, I hatched up this plan. Sell the house I was living in at the time and we both move into my parents house. I pitched my parents this idea by telling them we would "pay rent" by paying for their mortgage and expenses. What I really wanted happen was I wanted him to quit his warehouse job and go to school. He was never good at school, but he always wanted to experience the college life that we experienced. He was early 20s at the time. In other words, I literally wanted to assimilate him into our asian family.

So, we moved in to my parents house. I worked my job as an engineer. Parents were already retired. And Robert went to a local community college. My parents treated him like a son. And he aced all his classes. He then transfered to a university. Moved into their dorm. Got to experience what the rest of us experienced, a college life of classes, friends, and parties. We even sent him to Europe for a semester to study abroad.

He graduated with high honors and got a job right away as a PR professional. When he graduated, we invited everybody from his side and my side. Everyone in my family came. They flew in and got hotels just to attend the graduation ceremony the next morning. No one on his side showed up. A lot of them lived closer to the school than we did, but they couldn't be bothered to come. Education wasn't a priority to them.

We then bought another house and moved out. It worked out wonderfully. Whatever my parents did to get us to do well in school and be successful in life also worked for Robert.

I know a lot of people scoff at annecdotes. But I feel it is important to share this chapter of our lives. My husband is white. Grew up in more of a white trash environment. Did not do well in school. All it took was for him to live with my parents and had them treat him like a son to get him to succeed in school and professional life.

So, obviously, there is something very different between the kind of parenting my parents do and the kind of parenting underperforming kids' parents do.

I would love to get an opinion on this by experts, as I am an engineer and have zero background in psychology or anything else of the sort.
Parents

It takes two of them
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