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Old 08-13-2019, 01:34 PM
 
5,214 posts, read 2,670,336 times
Reputation: 6611

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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Interesting how the thread fell into a racist against blacks and hispanic threads as usual lol.

FYI - if someone's culture is based upon their skin color and you think their culture is inferior to another then you are engaging in racism (believing that there is an inherent charactersitic based on race that is superior/inferior to others).

As I note often, most of you don't know anything about black culture. One of the bastions of black culture today and historically is the importance of education and access especially to a quality education. Most of the debates and successes that have been had in this countries, really since the Civil War and in some areas before, are based on black activism in regards to public education. Even school vouchers are overwhelmingly supported by black Americans, which is why they and charter schools are prominent in urban districts with a large black population. It is also a reason why the black demographic has grown more in regards to educational achievement than any other demographic since the lessening of institutional racism in the 1970s.

On the article, it did say the majority/minority school received worse funding and resources than a wealthier school that was majority white. However, IMO it was based upon class/wealth versus the race/roots of the scholars at the other school.

Often wealthier districts have more resources, better teachers, better equipment, and higher school ratings because wealthier families don't have as many day to day stresses in regards to actual survival versus a lower income family of any racial background.

However, there are some cases where within districts there is racial discriminiation that occurs. Just the description of what happened in this article doesn't really show this to be the case as it seems more "class" oriented. Where I live we have a 99% black high school and about 10 years ago the black parents organization in our city sued the district and the suit was one about 6 years ago. The black parents association sued because the high school that is majority black did not have any AP classes offered to any students. They also had less technology versus our multi-racial schools (even those of the same income class - basically all our public high schools are Title I and serve working class or poverty stricken families regardless of ethnic background). The courts did find that the lack of academic offering in the 99% black school was racial discrimination and our district has responded and resolved those issues. However, it was a complaint that had been made when I was high school (and I'm 40. I didn't go to that school though as it was not my neighborhood school but 3 of my step sisters did and all of them admitted when they graduated that they were not prepared for college level coursework when they went to college. One of them flunked out of college and went to community college to basically get remediated course work to improve her skillset to go to the regular university. My own high school was statistically poorer than the black school when I and my sisters attended, but my high school had many Honors/AP classes and a diverse amount of vocational offerings as well - I was an Honors/AP and vocational student who learned computer science and "word processing" in high school. The only vocational programs offered at the black high school was cosmetology. At my school we had medical/nursing assistants, computer science/word/data processing, robotics, CAD/architectural design, and auto repair/auto body mechanics - my school was about 40% white, 25% black, 25% hispanic, and 5% Asian - we had a lot of Asian American refugees in our neighborhood - I'll also note that I never saw the parents of my Asian friends ever come to school to be "involved" and for most of my Asian American friends today they are not overly "involved" in school either. IMO people make ish up talking about "involvement" because what does that even mean. I don't go up to my kids school but I make sure she does her work and she gets all As. I got all As and my mom never came to my school. Dad came for parent/teacher conferences every year until I graduated, but that was the only time he came. Neither of them ever volunteered in any of my classes. They worked a lot - in factories and were tired after work and I didn't want them to come up to my school as I'd rather they rest and relax since they worked so hard - especially my mom as she went back to school herself and got her GED and college degree when I was in school. She always warned me to stay in school and graduate with a high GPA and that she'd reward me in any way to ensure I did. She wasn't the best mom but IMO she did well in regards to all 4 of her kid's educations - all 4 of us went to college and 3 graduated. She was not "involved" at all in school).
2 or 1 parent household?
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:52 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 8,632,213 times
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When my kids were in school, it didn't take a brain to figure out teacher preference.

I made damn sure my kids were the cutest, best dressed, well mannered kids in the classroom. It worked. They all did very well in school.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:31 PM
 
5,214 posts, read 2,670,336 times
Reputation: 6611
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Interesting how the thread fell into a racist against blacks and hispanic threads as usual lol.

FYI - if someone's culture is based upon their skin color and you think their culture is inferior to another then you are engaging in racism (believing that there is an inherent charactersitic based on race that is superior/inferior to others).


Ok, I'll play along.

No, culture is not based on skin color. However, there is a strong correlation, almost a connection, between race and culture. When we talk about this, of course we are not talking about ALL member of a certain race adhering to a specific culture. However, we are talking about a very significant part of the population following the dominant culture of that group that it is safe for us to assume they follow a particular culture based on their race without the fear of offending.

For example, if you run into a Vietnamese, chances are this person will know what pho is. I'm sure if you search hard enough you will find one or two Vietnamese who have never known pho. These exceptions do not negate the fact that pho is a well known Vietnamese dish and it is safe to assume every Vietnamese person knows what it is.

So, when we see an obviously hispanic person who speaks spanish, it is safe to assume this person follows certain hispanic culture. I'm sure if you search hard enough you will find a Mexican who worships Thor and follows the Nordic traditions. But this one exception does not negate the general rule.

Quote:
As I note often, most of you don't know anything about black culture. One of the bastions of black culture today and historically is the importance of education and access especially to a quality education. Most of the debates and successes that have been had in this countries, really since the Civil War and in some areas before, are based on black activism in regards to public education. Even school vouchers are overwhelmingly supported by black Americans, which is why they and charter schools are prominent in urban districts with a large black population. It is also a reason why the black demographic has grown more in regards to educational achievement than any other demographic since the lessening of institutional racism in the 1970s.
And yet blacks' test scores continue to be abysmally low compared to everybody else on average.

Quote:
On the article, it did say the majority/minority school received worse funding and resources than a wealthier school that was majority white. However, IMO it was based upon class/wealth versus the race/roots of the scholars at the other school.

Often wealthier districts have more resources, better teachers, better equipment, and higher school ratings because wealthier families don't have as many day to day stresses in regards to actual survival versus a lower income family of any racial background.
How do you explain dirt poor asian immigrants who attended the same schools as majority blacks and hispanics and somehow have done very well? My parents worked minimum wage jobs. We lived in an impoverished area. My siblings and I attended one of the worst schools in the area. Predominantly hispanic and black. We had a small asian group. Everyone in our group went on to college and became engineers and other stem professions.

I'm sorry, but based on our experience, even these underfunded schools offered enough for students to succeed.

Quote:
However, there are some cases where within districts there is racial discriminiation that occurs. Just the description of what happened in this article doesn't really show this to be the case as it seems more "class" oriented. Where I live we have a 99% black high school and about 10 years ago the black parents organization in our city sued the district and the suit was one about 6 years ago. The black parents association sued because the high school that is majority black did not have any AP classes offered to any students. They also had less technology versus our multi-racial schools (even those of the same income class - basically all our public high schools are Title I and serve working class or poverty stricken families regardless of ethnic background). The courts did find that the lack of academic offering in the 99% black school was racial discrimination and our district has responded and resolved those issues. However, it was a complaint that had been made when I was high school (and I'm 40. I didn't go to that school though as it was not my neighborhood school but 3 of my step sisters did and all of them admitted when they graduated that they were not prepared for college level coursework when they went to college. One of them flunked out of college and went to community college to basically get remediated course work to improve her skillset to go to the regular university. My own high school was statistically poorer than the black school when I and my sisters attended, but my high school had many Honors/AP classes and a diverse amount of vocational offerings as well - I was an Honors/AP and vocational student who learned computer science and "word processing" in high school. The only vocational programs offered at the black high school was cosmetology. At my school we had medical/nursing assistants, computer science/word/data processing, robotics, CAD/architectural design, and auto repair/auto body mechanics - my school was about 40% white, 25% black, 25% hispanic, and 5% Asian - we had a lot of Asian American refugees in our neighborhood - I'll also note that I never saw the parents of my Asian friends ever come to school to be "involved" and for most of my Asian American friends today they are not overly "involved" in school either. IMO people make ish up talking about "involvement" because what does that even mean. I don't go up to my kids school but I make sure she does her work and she gets all As. I got all As and my mom never came to my school. Dad came for parent/teacher conferences every year until I graduated, but that was the only time he came. Neither of them ever volunteered in any of my classes. They worked a lot - in factories and were tired after work and I didn't want them to come up to my school as I'd rather they rest and relax since they worked so hard - especially my mom as she went back to school herself and got her GED and college degree when I was in school. She always warned me to stay in school and graduate with a high GPA and that she'd reward me in any way to ensure I did. She wasn't the best mom but IMO she did well in regards to all 4 of her kid's educations - all 4 of us went to college and 3 graduated. She was not "involved" at all in school).
I have a special request for you. Please make use of the paragraph.

Like this.

And avoid huge blocks of texts.

Regarding the bolded sentence. You misunderstood the word "involved". Of the 4 years that I attended high school, my parents set foot in that school may be 3 times at most. But they were extremely involved with my school work. How? They often reminded me the importance of school work. At dinner, they talked to me about school and listened to what I'd learned. Etc.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:06 AM
 
13,581 posts, read 4,109,303 times
Reputation: 4035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossify View Post
I'm just gonna go ahead and help everyone out here.

Under very few circumstances is culture related to skin color, with exception to grand or regional cultural commonalities. For example, most ethnic Western Europeans have pale skin and share common Western European values like liberalism, but a Republic of Irelander will have a drastically different set of cultural habits and norms than someone who is Welsh. Additionally, ethnically mixed groups like Hispanics range in a variety of complexions, but the cultural commonalities between one Hispanic and another is NOT based on complexion but on one's homeland (i.e. El Salvador vs Mexico - and they don't always get along).

You might make the case that non-mixed ethnic groups have a complexion that impacts culture, and here lies the exception, such as people who are 99.8% of a single African race, Asian race, or some other race, and unless you have studied human evolution, or at least read about it to some degree, you would not be able to properly expound on this. It is a matter of evolution, and frankly there are still discoveries being made about the human origins that I doubt the stuff that most people learned in school is even current.

Being said, no, culture is not based on complexion.
The only person who ever suggested that red herring was the poster residinghere2007. No one else had even made the argument.

The hereditarian argument is that groups have cultural tendencies influenced by heritable psychological traits. It's just common sense that a group's culture is not developed entirely external to them or just happenstance.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
780 posts, read 664,439 times
Reputation: 462
Even the good schools are still constrained by an old fashioned school system. I had the privilege of attending one of the best public high schools in California, and it was still ehhh for getting me interested but for a few teachers.

It wasn’t until I got to the freedom of college that I even gave a damn. I went from a C high school student who aced tests but skipped homework, to a dean’s list student.

We need alternative models, be they vouchered, homeschool/unschool, or even creative public alternatives. Something needs to change, because the Prussian model sucks.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
780 posts, read 664,439 times
Reputation: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossify View Post
What you are asking is for a typical government teaching and indoctrinating factory to be more suitable for most human beings. I would not count on that.
Itís not impossible. Local PTA already isnít happy with me, and Iím not even home much.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Micronesia
3,253 posts, read 1,000,275 times
Reputation: 1532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman99 View Post
"Corralled" as in segregation due to poverty. Don't worry though...hard working blacks and Hispanics closing the education gap to whites that will never reach the educational levels of Asians as a group.
This kind of racism is still cool, right?
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
780 posts, read 664,439 times
Reputation: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossify View Post
Yes, but the African-American racial group that has been the focus in this forum is all over the map in terms of genes, simply due to how blacks in America are racially categorized (grouped) by the majority of people, and so I think it is more helpful to focus on culture than hereditary traits. Yes, I'm a personal believer of nature and nurture always being a factor, but that is not to say a black kid that gets bad grades is lacking good genes. Look at Ben Carson, turns out he was lacking discipline back in his youth when he was failing school (and getting into trouble), which his mother sternly addressed. I did read Mr. Carson's biography some years ago.
Hotep Jesus might be a better example of a grassroots black success, though I canít fathom where the hell he came up with his migration pattern theories.

Anyway, heís less a product of schools than mindset.

Ivy leaguers get us into wars. Free-minded, ambitious people make innovations.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:04 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 2,670,336 times
Reputation: 6611
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
The only person who ever suggested that red herring was the poster residinghere2007. No one else had even made the argument.

The hereditarian argument is that groups have cultural tendencies influenced by heritable psychological traits. It's just common sense that a group's culture is not developed entirely external to them or just happenstance.
Thank you for pointing this out.

It is so easy to sneak in a red herring these days.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:58 AM
 
13,581 posts, read 4,109,303 times
Reputation: 4035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossify View Post
Yes, but the African-American racial group that has been the focus in this forum is all over the map in terms of genes, simply due to how blacks in America are racially categorized (grouped) by the majority of people, and so I think it is more helpful to focus on culture than hereditary traits. Yes, I'm a personal believer of nature and nurture always being a factor, but that is not to say a black kid that gets bad grades is lacking good genes. Look at Ben Carson, turns out he was lacking discipline back in his youth when he was failing school (and getting into trouble), which his mother sternly addressed. I did read Mr. Carson's biography some years ago.
You are totally misunderstanding and misconstruing the hereditarian argument. The culture is strongly influenced by inheritance. It's not about single individuals but the group overall. The argument is why can't two genetic/racial groups have the same average educational performance and outcomes. And the hereditarian argument is there is no reason to expect they would or should or even could.

And if the argument is why can't two genetic/racial groups have the same culture, the answer is the same there's no reason to expect it.

The flaw is to compare two fundamentally different groups and expect them to be identical in the first place.
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