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Old 08-11-2019, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,605 posts, read 1,374,600 times
Reputation: 2133

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
Asian liberal here. I'm going to say something very unpopular to say among liberals. The main driver for under-performing schools isn't the black of funding. It is the cultural attitude toward education of the group that goes to such schools.

When my family first came to the states, we were dirt poor and lived in a run down mobile home neighborhood. We went to probably one of the worst schools in the Chicago area. There were always fights going on. My siblings and I did our best to learn as much as we could because that's what our parents taught us to do.

We all went on to universities and became engineers and mathematician.

On the other hand, the most disruptive students I can remember and also my bullies are now minimum wage workers. I still run into them from time to time.

Believe it or not, it starts with the parent(s). Unfortunately, there are many communities that do not value education. Most of these communities are overflowed with single moms.

Throwing more money at these schools will not change anything. It starts at home. Fix the cultural attitude toward education first. Get the parents involved. Get the kids interested in the subjects. Anything.

PS. I did not have a computer or use a computer until college. That's how poor our school was. I turned out just fine. Programming was my first job out of college.
Spot on!!!! It's so refreshing to have someone so eloquently explain what should be common sense, and is to many, but also eludes far to many others who believe being a victim, where someone else is always at fault, is their highest calling.

Of course there are other various externalities that contribute to bad schools...but what you're describing above is about 90% of the reason they have become, and will remain, underperforming schools regardless of the budget.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:05 AM
 
13,673 posts, read 4,128,116 times
Reputation: 4061
Poor performance and behavior might not be 100% due to hereditary but it's at least 50% or more. No one can fix that.

Besides why should anyone else want to try to fix other people's kids? Your only moral duty is to your own or those closest in relation to you.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Pacific Beach/San Diego
3,852 posts, read 2,537,614 times
Reputation: 3790
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Poor performance and behavior might not be 100% due to hereditary but it's at least 50% or more. No one can fix that.

Besides why should anyone else want to try to fix other people's kids? Your only moral duty is to your own or those closest in relation to you.
Because you have empathy.

Oh, wait, you're a Republican. Because you don't want people to have public assistance.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:14 AM
 
13,673 posts, read 4,128,116 times
Reputation: 4061
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristramShandy View Post
Because you have empathy.

Oh, wait, you're a Republican. Because you don't want people to have public assistance.
I have lots of empathy for those that deserve it.

I'll be damned to accept liberals imposing a burden on me to fix other people's kids that I did not break, people who don't even like Americans like me and have been nothing but a thorn in our side and the bane of our existence. There's nothing moral or empathetic about what liberals are proposing.

Oh yeah, I didn't say anything about public assistance.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:19 AM
 
1,668 posts, read 355,586 times
Reputation: 1951
It's a lose/lose proposition to think that throwing more money at schools will fix a problem that starts in the home.

If the parents don't care, the kids don't care.
If the kids don't care it will be reflected in the schools academic standings.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Long Island
33,967 posts, read 14,299,256 times
Reputation: 7295
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper1372 View Post
Spot on!!!! It's so refreshing to have someone so eloquently explain what should be common sense, and is to many, but also eludes far to many others who believe being a victim, where someone else is always at fault, is their highest calling.

Of course there are other various externalities that contribute to bad schools...but what you're describing above is about 90% of the reason they have become, and will remain, underperforming schools regardless of the budget.
So how does one change the home culture of a poor family with a single uneducated parent from a high crime neigborhood, easier said than done.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:20 AM
 
16,835 posts, read 14,287,588 times
Reputation: 20741
Quote:
Originally Posted by fat lou View Post
Here's yet another story about false claims of racial victimhood, saying that black and hispanic students have been "corralled" into "underperforming schools." But how is that logically possible? Isn't it the students themselves who perform? Isn't that like saying that players for the Pittsburgh Pirates have been "corralled" into an underperforming baseball team?

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...o-14293740.php
The metrics for school performance include many factors besides student test scores. They likely have less qualified teachers and admins, no AP classes, a whole host of variables which skew lower besides just test scores.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:21 AM
 
7,503 posts, read 3,851,882 times
Reputation: 3940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
If you had bothered to read your own link, you would know that a school in a largely minority neighborhood was deprived of funding that was provided to other mostly white schools in the same district. The students were not so much "under-performing" as were the administrators of the school district who deliberately tried to save money by throwing low income students under the bus.

For example, even the hardest working kids are going to be at a disadvantage if they attend a school with no library or no computers. If you gave the Pittsburg Pirates bats and balls that came from the discard pile at the local thrift shop while the opposing team had top of the line sporting equipment, the Pirates would "under perform" too.

Why are you okay with minority students receiving a substandard education? The dog whistle here is so loud that it hurts my ears.
More than funding, those kids need 2 parents at home, not one parent or a grandmother. For the record, I lean far left but I like to deal with reality. Have these kids ever seen someone in their home reading a book or newspaper or watching the news? Any news.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:22 AM
 
8,549 posts, read 2,564,740 times
Reputation: 5928
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
There's got to be something about those school buildings, something in the bricks and mortar, or the dirt they sit on, that makes them underperform. A team of technical experts should be assembled to investigate...
They're built on tragic dirt instead of magic dirt.
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Old 08-11-2019, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,605 posts, read 1,374,600 times
Reputation: 2133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
So how does one change the home culture of a poor family with a single uneducated parent from a high crime neigborhood, easier said than done.
You got me on that one. On a mass scale, I'm not sure it's even possible to do so. I had good parents, good role models who worked hard, put some thought into life, and carved out a solidly middle class life for our family. We had all we needed, and some of what we wanted. A good balance. I have no idea how to be a role model to someone I don't spend time with and don't live with and have any influence over.

I guess it comes down to you own values and how you implement them. Over the years we've had two neighbor kids (boys in our case) that I/we kind of mentored. They were both friends of our daughters, and came from bad situations. I remember helping them both from time to time with school projects and even fixing cars etc... I've received fathers day best wishes from each of them from time to time. I like to think I helped them out a bit in life, and I think to some degree I have. But...on a large scale, I don't think this is possible without individual personalized effort. No government agency (throwing money at a problem) or policy is going to change a dysfunctional family that doesn't value education, hard work, and have a plan for a successful life, into a functional one that does value those things and plans for the future....and without those things, you have little chance of much success in life. It all starts at home!

I waited to get married until I was 25, in large part because I wanted to be through with my college education and established in a family wage job. I got married, and my wife and I waited 4 years to have our first child because we thought it best to establish our married relationship first, and to be able to afford our own home to raise out child in.

If you think ahead and plot a plan that makes sense, you can do well in life if you put effort and planning into it. if you stumble through life without a plan in place, have a child at 17, don't get an education in part because now you have kid(s) to provide for, drive up your credit card debt, make payments on a fancy car with to little income, and make other poor choices....guess what? You'll end up with a very hard life, that is in at least a large part due to your own poor choices. I am not responsible for YOUR poor choices. I cannot make YOUR choices for you.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Last edited by jasper1372; 08-11-2019 at 01:03 PM..
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