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Old 08-28-2019, 08:03 AM
 
37,770 posts, read 16,702,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
No, what you said was:





Please provide a cite for that claim.


The bolded certainly reads like you're asserting the majority of Spanish speakers in the US today are illegal, but I'm willing to chalk that up to poor communication on your part.
The only proof I have that Spanish is being spoken everywhere unlike in the past are my ears. Are my ears lying to me? I grew up in So. Calif. and lived here in the 60's and 70's so I'm in the thick of it here. I have seen the change first hand!

You are twisting my words again. I never said that the majority of Spanish speakers are here illegally. What I said is the reason we are hearing more Spanish these days is directly due to illegal immigration. Reading comprehension problem? Most Hispanic-Americans know how to speak English. Now are you going to continue to spin my remarks? If so, don't reply to me anymore.

 
Old 08-28-2019, 08:12 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
9,339 posts, read 8,101,566 times
Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The only proof I have that Spanish is being spoken everywhere unlike in the past are my ears. Are my ears lying to me? I grew up in So. Calif. and lived here in the 60's and 70's so I'm in the thick of it here. I have seen the change first hand!

Anecdotal evidence is not compelling. If that's all you've got, we'll agree to disagree.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You are twisting my words again. I never said that the majority of Spanish speakers are here illegally. What I said is the reason we are hearing more Spanish these days is directly due to illegal immigration. Reading comprehension problem? Most Hispanic-Americans know how to speak English. Now are you going to continue to spin my remarks? If so, don't reply to me anymore.
I'm not twisting your words, at all. If illegals are NOT the majority of Spanish speaking people that you hear in our country today, then how is this: "the reason we are hearing so much Spanish being spoken is directly due to the number of illegal aliens in our country" true? If they are a minority of Spanish speakers, they can't also be "the reason" "directly" that we hear "so much" Spanish being spoken.


 
Old 08-28-2019, 08:23 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,941 posts, read 1,704,265 times
Reputation: 3673
Default Good luck trying to force people

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
I agree with the woman who said it was distasteful. Spanish speakers especially latin American in public speak a very grating dialect of Spanish very loudly and I find it repulsive and distasteful.
Of course, the US took Puerto Rico as part of the fortunes of war in the Spanish American War, in 1898 CE. & Puerto Ricans are US citizens since 1917, I think it was - just in time to join the US military rush to Europe in WWI. TMK, Puerto Ricans have served in the US military ever since the Spanish American War.

"The official languages[225] of the executive branch of government of Puerto Rico[226] are Spanish and English, with Spanish being the primary language. Spanish is, and has been, the only official language of the entire Commonwealth judiciary system, despite a 1902 English-only language law.[227] However, all official business of the U.S. District Court for the District of Puerto Rico is conducted in English. English is the primary language of less than 10% of the population. Spanish is the dominant language of business, education and daily life on the island, spoken by nearly 95% of the population.[228]

"The U.S. Census Bureau's 2016 update provides the following facts: 94.3% of adults speak only Spanish at home, which compares to 5.5% who speak English, 0.2% who speak French, and 0.1% who speak another language at home.[2]

"In Puerto Rico, public school instruction is conducted almost entirely in Spanish. There have been pilot programs in about a dozen of the over 1,400 public schools aimed at conducting instruction in English only. Objections from teaching staff are common, perhaps because many of them are not fully fluent in English.[229] English is taught as a second language and is a compulsory subject from elementary levels to high school. The languages of the deaf community are American Sign Language and its local variant, Puerto Rican Sign Language."

(My emphasis - more @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico#Languages)

The US attempted to make English the primary language there, but that attempt failed.
 
Old 08-28-2019, 08:41 AM
 
37,770 posts, read 16,702,590 times
Reputation: 10235
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Anecdotal evidence is not compelling. If that's all you've got, we'll agree to disagree.





I'm not twisting your words, at all. If illegals are NOT the majority of Spanish speaking people that you hear in our country today, then how is this: "the reason we are hearing so much Spanish being spoken is directly due to the number of illegal aliens in our country" true? If they are a minority of Spanish speakers, they can't also be "the reason" "directly" that we hear "so much" Spanish being spoken.


You live in Michigan not a state like Calif. or the rest of the southwest who have the most illegal aliens anywhere. If I hear it everywhere then so is everyone else in my state, duh. Please explain why this wasn't the case decades ago when most Hispanics were here legally or were citizens of our country and I rarely heard them speaking Spanish? I stand by what I said, we are hearing more and more Spanish because of the number of illegals here illegally today.

Once again, I didn't say that the majority of Spanish speakers are illegals. Why do you continue twisting my words? Re-read my prior posts over and over and maybe you'll finally get it.

Why would Hispanics that were born here be speaking Spanish everywhere when they learned English in our schools and are a part of our overall community? Sure, some still do but not the majority of them as they'd have no reason to. Again, not all Spanish speakers are here illegally but those speaking Spanish everywhere are the ones that are!

Actually, I'm just as tired of you spinning my words as a couple of other posters have. Welcome to my ignore list along with them. That makes three today!
 
Old 08-28-2019, 09:13 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
9,339 posts, read 8,101,566 times
Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You live in Michigan not a state like Calif. or the rest of the southwest who have the most illegal aliens anywhere. If I hear it everywhere then so is everyone else in my state, duh. Please explain why this wasn't the case decades ago when most Hispanics were here legally or were citizens of our country and I rarely heard them speaking Spanish? I stand by what I said, we are hearing more and more Spanish because of the number of illegals here illegally today.

I've already addressed the issues with anecdotal evidence. If it's so plainly obvious, there should be plenty of data to back it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Once again, I didn't say that the majority of Spanish speakers are illegals. Why do you continue twisting my words? Re-read my prior posts over and over and maybe you'll finally get it.

Because, as I pointed out, your "logic" doesn't work if the claim isn't that the majority of Spanish speakers are illegals.


I'll repeat: If they (illegals) are a minority of Spanish speakers, they can't also be "the reason" "directly" that we hear "so much" Spanish being spoken.


We won't even get into the fallacy that you apparently assume that everyone you hear speaking Spanish cannot also speak English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Why would Hispanics that were born here be speaking Spanish everywhere when they learned English in our schools and are a part of our overall community?

So, the only two classes are illegals or people that were born here? No naturalized Spanish speakers out there at all?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Sure, some still do but not the majority of them as they'd have no reason to. Again, not all Spanish speakers are here illegally but those speaking Spanish everywhere are the ones that are!

And I'm asking you to back that up with data, not feelings.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Actually, I'm just as tired of you spinning my words as a couple of other posters have. Welcome to my ignore list along with them. That makes three today!

Cool. Enjoy your safe space.
 
Old 08-28-2019, 09:26 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,941 posts, read 1,704,265 times
Reputation: 3673
Default Meanwhile, back in the World

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
OPNAVINST 5354.1F Section 9 Foreign Language Part C (which was put out 25Jul07) states:



The woman in uniform did nothing wrong. If I remember this correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong here, You can speak another language while in uniform, you just can't speak it while performing official business.
Unless your official business is translating or transcribing conservations/intercepts in Spanish, Russian, Chinese - whatever the target language may be. The government & military maintain big language schools - we always need Arabic, Pashto, Persian, Russian, Chinese & etc. language speakers, & the more fluent, the better. The US military, intelligence services & diplomats particularly need foreign language expertise.
 
Old 08-28-2019, 09:35 AM
 
13,279 posts, read 4,065,412 times
Reputation: 3964
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
So any level of security less than 100% control of every single human being that crosses an international boundary is "open borders" to you? That explains it. In that case, every nation on the planet has open borders.
No not every nation has 1-2 million illegal aliens crossing their border every year. In fact, most likely only one does.
 
Old 08-28-2019, 09:41 AM
 
13,279 posts, read 4,065,412 times
Reputation: 3964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The only proof I have that Spanish is being spoken everywhere unlike in the past are my ears. Are my ears lying to me? I grew up in So. Calif. and lived here in the 60's and 70's so I'm in the thick of it here. I have seen the change first hand!

You are twisting my words again. I never said that the majority of Spanish speakers are here illegally. What I said is the reason we are hearing more Spanish these days is directly due to illegal immigration. Reading comprehension problem? Most Hispanic-Americans know how to speak English. Now are you going to continue to spin my remarks? If so, don't reply to me anymore.
I'd estimate over 90% of the Hispanics in this country are of illegal origin (illegal or a product of an illegal parent). At least 10 times as many come illegally than legally. If not for illegal immigration the population would most likely be less than a 10th of what it is.
 
Old 08-28-2019, 11:57 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,941 posts, read 1,704,265 times
Reputation: 3673
Default Paradise of the Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
That’s the point. Most people don’t get triggered by Spanish speakers. Chances are the busybody isn’t even a Trump supporter. It happened at Starbucks. How many conservatives do you know that frequent Starbucks and purchase bad overpriced coffee? I know quite a few actual Trump supporters, and Starbucks is the last place they’re going for coffee.
In Hawaii? That's ironic - the civilian complaining must not get out much in the islands.

"Hawaii's culture is strongly influenced by North American and East Asian cultures, in addition to its indigenous Hawaiian culture. Hawaii has over a million permanent residents, along with many visitors and U.S. military personnel. Its capital is Honolulu on the island of Oʻahu.

"Hawaii is the 8th-smallest and the 11th-least populous, but the 13th-most densely populated of the 50 U.S. states. It is the only state with an Asian plurality. ...

"Ancestry
"Further information: Native Hawaiians, White Americans in Hawaii, Africans in Hawaii, and Japanese in Hawaii

"According to the 2010 United States Census, Hawaii had a population of 1,360,301. The state's population identified as 38.6% Asian; 24.7% White (22.7% Non-Hispanic White Alone); 23.6% from two or more races; 10.0% Native Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders; 8.9% Hispanics and Latinos of any race; 1.6% Black or African American; 1.2% from some other race; and 0.3% Native American and Alaska Native.[110] ...

"Languages

"English and Hawaiian are listed as Hawaii's official languages in the state's 1978 constitution, in Article XV, Section 4.[126] However, the use of Hawai'ian is limited because the constitution specifies that "Hawaiian shall be required for public acts and transactions only as provided by law". Hawaiʻi Creole English, locally referred to as "Pidgin", is the native language of many native residents and is a second language for many others.[citation needed]

"As of the 2000 Census, 73.4% of Hawaii residents aged five and older exclusively speak English at home.[127] According to the 2008 American Community Survey, 74.6% of Hawaii's residents over the age of five speak only English at home.[120] In their homes, 21.0% of state residents speak an additional Asian language, 2.6% speak Spanish, 1.6% speak other Indo-European languages and 0.2% speak another language.[120]"

(My emphasis - more @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii#Ancestry)

There was considerable debate when Hawaii & Alaska were proposed as states - the questions of race/ethnicity & language/culture came up, but in 1959, we admitted Hawaii anyway. It's too late to turn back, & the US doesn't typically let go of states either.
 
Old 08-28-2019, 01:04 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,941 posts, read 1,704,265 times
Reputation: 3673
Default Perhaps power will pass us by

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
The real problem isn't one thing, its a combination of things, foreign and often illegal, too many, too loud, they don't learn or speak English, the foreign language is unintelligible, it's spoken very loudly with an off putting cadence and dialect.

Just shortly ago I was at a suburban park really out in the country. To have any peace, I had to get 100s of feet away and behind forested area to not hear a rowdy group's Spanish or another rowdy group of young, grown men muslims and speaking some middle eastern language.

I have been going to and paying for that park for many years and for many years never seen or heard a foreign person, and now at times I might as well be the foreigner there. It's just beyond ridiculous.
That's part of the price you pay for being part of a world power since 1918 CE, & then with a vengeance since 1945. We exported products, ideas, & capital. We imported students, refugees, people who wanted liberty, or to work. Now those people & their descendants are in the majority or nearly so in some parts of the US - typically urban areas. Rome & UK & other power centers went through a similar process.

It's too late to wind back the clock, although the margin in influence between the US & the rest of the World is narrowing.
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