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Old Today, 05:12 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
10,201 posts, read 8,177,105 times
Reputation: 4359

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This thread is fascinating. There are a good number of people here agreeing who almost never agree with each other. They may have entirely different perspectives, but net net, they agree.
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Old Today, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
263 posts, read 118,603 times
Reputation: 601
Let me put forth a good example to make things a bit clearer.

Employing someone is like a business providing a service, but in reverse. You go to a business as a customer and you pay what the business wants in order to get what you want, whether it be a haircut, a burger or a tank of gasoline. But I have a thin wallet, and I'm a careful shopper. I only eat at the local burger place on Mondays, since I can get lunch for $5.99 (instead of $9+). I get my gas at Costco, since it's 20 cents cheaper than everybody else. I buy things when they're on sale, or at thrift stores, or better yet, I let others do my shopping for me and I get what they no longer want.

What does this have to do with a "labor shortage?" Well, imagine there are 2 burger places, across the street from each other. Joint #1 offers a great selection of the yummiest burgers around, and for a good price. There's always a line out the door. Place #2, although it's just as accessible as #1, it's always empty. Why? Well, it's expensive. Why pay $11 for a mediocre burger, when I can get a super-tasty one across the street for $2 less? The real kicker is when the owner of #2 complains about a "customer" shortage.

Economics in action. Learn it, breath it, live it. It's a two-way street, ladies and gentlemen. The business which offers a great work environment will always have a line of applicants out the door. They will never, ever experience a labor shortage. The places which don't offer good pay, or a good work environment, etc, pretty much attract those who have to work, and these people accept their horrid job because they often have no other alternative. With a good economy providing lots of new jobs about, many of those people are finally able to jump ship for greener pastures, and rightfully so. The crappy-pay business has to deal with the inevitable laws of economics. Tough kitty. Anybody who feels sorry for this business is a dog-gone fool.

That's why there is not a labor shortage, and until that labor participation rate reaches 100%, we will never, ever have a labor shortage. Case closed.
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Old Today, 05:45 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
10,201 posts, read 8,177,105 times
Reputation: 4359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
Economics in action. Learn it, breath it, live it. It's a two-way street, ladies and gentlemen. The business which offers a great work environment will always have a line of applicants out the door. They will never, ever experience a labor shortage. The places which don't offer good pay, or a good work environment, etc, pretty much attract those who have to work, and these people accept their horrid job because they often have no other alternative. With a good economy providing lots of new jobs about, many of those people are finally able to jump ship for greener pastures, and rightfully so. The crappy-pay business has to deal with the inevitable laws of economics. Tough kitty. Anybody who feels sorry for this business is a dog-gone fool.
Im in high cost NJ. A couple examples from local businesses.

At my 2nd job they would not go above 9 dollars an hour for the cashier positions at a big box store since forever. (Walmart is 11 bucks and Target is 13.) Add in the downstairs boss is a bully and they pressure 9 dollar people for a ton of metrics besides simple cashiering (get customers rung and don't make them mad) There was always a severe shortage of people downstairs. A funny thing happened in the last month now that the state is forcing them to pay 10 dollars an hour starting July 1 (narrowing the gap between us and Walmart) They have MORE applicants and are actually filling some of the holes. I personally believe 15 an hour is overreach, but 10 is forcing bottom fishers closer to the surface.

A good number of local businesses have had signs for help wanted out so long the paint was fading off their signs. I do not know if being forced to pay 10 dollars is making a dent or not as I am not close enough to these businesses. These were all paying roughly 9 to 9.50 an hour.
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Old Today, 06:42 AM
 
1,290 posts, read 262,855 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
How did you miss this?


Screaming labor shortage forcing firms to get creative to fill record job openings
Federal Reserve finds major shortage of workers across economy

"Itís a big headache for businesses, though. Not only do they have pay higher labor costs, they canít find enough talent to raise production to meet growing demand. Some companies even have to reject new orders because they cannot fill them."


Fed report:


Help Wanted: Evaluating Labor Shortages in Manufacturing

"The evidence captured by our survey-based measure is consistent with traditional measures of labor market tightness. In particular, models of labor market search point to the vacancy-to-unemployment ratio, v/u, as a measure of market tightness, where v denotes the number of job openings and u is the number of unemployed.5 According this measure, the labor market is tighter the greater the number of employers seeking to fill job positions relative to the number of prospective workers looking for jobs."


PS: I guess this is where people will go with the one they agree with, huh ...
Both of those articles are over 1 year old. The BLS report I posted is dated August 2019.
I will take the numbers of a current government report over articles dated 2018.
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Old Today, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,625 posts, read 12,768,172 times
Reputation: 3056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
Let me put forth a good example to make things a bit clearer.

Employing someone is like a business providing a service, but in reverse. You go to a business as a customer and you pay what the business wants in order to get what you want, whether it be a haircut, a burger or a tank of gasoline. But I have a thin wallet, and I'm a careful shopper. I only eat at the local burger place on Mondays, since I can get lunch for $5.99 (instead of $9+). I get my gas at Costco, since it's 20 cents cheaper than everybody else. I buy things when they're on sale, or at thrift stores, or better yet, I let others do my shopping for me and I get what they no longer want.

What does this have to do with a "labor shortage?" Well, imagine there are 2 burger places, across the street from each other. Joint #1 offers a great selection of the yummiest burgers around, and for a good price. There's always a line out the door. Place #2, although it's just as accessible as #1, it's always empty. Why? Well, it's expensive. Why pay $11 for a mediocre burger, when I can get a super-tasty one across the street for $2 less? The real kicker is when the owner of #2 complains about a "customer" shortage.

Economics in action. Learn it, breath it, live it. It's a two-way street, ladies and gentlemen. The business which offers a great work environment will always have a line of applicants out the door. They will never, ever experience a labor shortage. The places which don't offer good pay, or a good work environment, etc, pretty much attract those who have to work, and these people accept their horrid job because they often have no other alternative. With a good economy providing lots of new jobs about, many of those people are finally able to jump ship for greener pastures, and rightfully so. The crappy-pay business has to deal with the inevitable laws of economics. Tough kitty. Anybody who feels sorry for this business is a dog-gone fool.

That's why there is not a labor shortage, and until that labor participation rate reaches 100%, we will never, ever have a labor shortage. Case closed.
Anybody who wants a job right now can get one. It sounds like even if a job was handed to you that you wouldnít take it. Thus, you arenít counted as part of the labor force and would not be a part of the equation.

If I may ask, how are you able to get by without a paying job?
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Old Today, 07:42 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,930 posts, read 10,628,546 times
Reputation: 9594
A shelf stocker at the local grocery store making $50 an hour is a bit unrealistic. Businesses cannot be businesses if the cost exceeds the revenue. That's grade school economics. And if you are so adamant that unskilled people make engineer and doctor wages, tip 5000% each time you go to the golden arches, pay quadruple your grocery store receipt each time you shop, and ten times your gasoline bill at the gas station/convenience store. See how long you can do that before logic sets in and/or you go bankrupt.
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Old Today, 07:52 AM
 
37,488 posts, read 16,588,180 times
Reputation: 10148
Here's the deal. As I said before we have far too many fast food joints, hotels and other low paying businesses being built in this country. We are becoming a concrete jungle with so many business buildings going up that don't have the labor to support them. I say have stricter regulations on building more and more of these types of businesses such as the above and then there will be no labor shortages and higher wages to attract employees.

The solution isn't to import more and more foreigners for those jobs as it results in all kinds of new problems with that.

Last edited by Oldglory; Today at 08:00 AM..
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Old Today, 07:55 AM
 
5,064 posts, read 5,098,676 times
Reputation: 6354
With ads like this no wonder there will be labor shortage. Labor has to get used to an idea of giving up on family, house, or even an individual apartment. If wages paid to labor do not cover reproduction (broadly speaking) of labor it goes extinct. That's what they call "boom" these days.

Production/Machine Operation - Start Tomorrow! (Medina)
compensation: $11.50 - 12.00/hr
employment type: contract
Our client, a large plastic bottling facility in Medina is hiring for machine operator and production positions on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd shifts. Please see shifts schedules listed below:

1st Shift - 7am - 3pm - $11.50/hr
2nd Shift - 3pm - 11pm - $12.00/hr
3rd Shift - 11am - 7pm $12.00/hr

All shifts listed are Monday - Friday

• Must be capable of standing for up to 8 hours
• Ability to lift up to 50 lbs if needed
• Must have a clean background and the ability to pass a drug screen

Last edited by RememberMee; Today at 08:08 AM..
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Old Today, 08:05 AM
 
8,426 posts, read 2,500,397 times
Reputation: 5834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
I understand this concept. But if at any point there are more job openings than people looking for jobs it is considered a labor shortage. Consult a dictionary if you must.
That's not the definition. A labor shortage is an economic condition in which there are insufficient qualified candidates to fill the market-place demands for employment at any price. The number of "job openings" and the number of people looking for jobs are irrelevant. A labor shortage is rare and exists only in extreme situations like the Alamo, where it was literally impossible to obtain additional labor at any price.
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Old Today, 08:05 AM
 
5,064 posts, read 5,098,676 times
Reputation: 6354
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
A shelf stocker at the local grocery store making $50 an hour is a bit unrealistic. Businesses cannot be businesses if the cost exceeds the revenue. That's grade school economics. And if you are so adamant that unskilled people make engineer and doctor wages, tip 5000% each time you go to the golden arches, pay quadruple your grocery store receipt each time you shop, and ten times your gasoline bill at the gas station/convenience store. See how long you can do that before logic sets in and/or you go bankrupt.
Again, if businesses can pay obscene salaries to upper management bankrupting those businesses why business folks feel entitled to cheap workers "willing" to work for poverty wages? Can you imagine how many more businesses could be created if people could be forced to work for $2/hr or less?

Last edited by RememberMee; Today at 09:14 AM..
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