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Old 08-11-2019, 04:33 PM
 
Location: southern california
56,365 posts, read 75,532,811 times
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The government has a nasty habit of collecting funds for an express purpose and spending the money on other stuff
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Old 08-11-2019, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,976 posts, read 11,170,662 times
Reputation: 17536
Anyone who still harbors the notion that uncontrolled borders is a border fence cost issue, is living in an alternate reality where TDS (aka political and media hysteria) rules!

Border security is a purely political tool which (along with a fence solution), has been intermittently sponsored by both parties, but, is currently being 'wielded' by a frustrated Dem. party that has lost its ability and voting power to "win" via legitimate channels.

Instead of solving problems or coming-up with substantive ideas of its own, the party is using any means necessary to destroy the established system and tear down or block the success of the POTUS ... at any cost.

Again, the notion that this is a cost issue or a concern over where the funds could come from, has been manufactured because money is the only area where the Dems. can exercise any type of control through a majority-held house.

Last edited by jghorton; 08-11-2019 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:07 PM
 
38,500 posts, read 17,027,688 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
I actually like this idea. Build the wall if you want, just don’t use my money for it. Bonds are a great way to raise ca$h from people who’ll voluntarily fork it over for that. I fully support this idea.
Wow, do you live in a fortress whereby criminals, terrorists and trespassers can't reach or effect you in any way? Are you not aware that you are contributing to the over $100 billion a year that illegals cost us already? Good physical barriers would go a long ways in keeping those problems at bay. Guess it does effect you after all.

Last edited by Oldglory; 08-11-2019 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:13 PM
 
38,500 posts, read 17,027,688 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBMorgan View Post
Stealing money from the Defense Department's budget is no different - taxpayers paying for a wall that idiot Trump kept talking about MEXICO paying for it. Another lie ignored by his base.
Still repeating this stupid nonsense? Trump never said that Mexico would write a check for it. They will be paying for it through tariffs. So where's the lie?

No money is being stolen from the Defense Department budget it's over bloated in the first place. Since when isn't a secure border a part of national defense anyway?

I know I have asked you this before but don't recall if you answered or not. Were you just as upset when the actual wall bill passed back in 2006 and it was soley to be the taxpayer to fund it? You'd rather we continue to spend over $100 billion a year on illegal aliens rather than a one time cost of a $25 billion wall? Math must not have been your strong point.
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
989 posts, read 713,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Wow, do you live in a fortress whereby criminals terrorists and trespassers can't reach or effect you in any way? Are you not aware that you are contributing to the over $100 billion a year that illegals cost us already? Good physical barriers would go a long ways in keeping those problems at bay. Guess it does effect you after all.
I’m married to the daughter of an illegal immigrant. Yeah, I am a bit revolted by the reliance on public services, but the”criminal terrorists” are mostly a myth. If you’re talking about drug cartels, no wall is going to stand between them and the $$$$$.

On the other hand, I grew up in an environment rich with (mostly) legal, Asian immigrants. I can’t put a dollar amount on having people from other cultures who bring texture and perspective to our lives.

That’s why I’ll let a useless wall get built, if it’ll let us just get on with being the tapestry we’ve been for a long time.

Easing immigration restrictions would probably be an even better middle course. We know who’s here, and take some pressure off of the impulse to hop the border illegally. I’ll see if I can post the specific Economist article I’m thinking of, if you’ll be so kind as to allow me some time.

*EDIT* Well crap, my subscription lapsed, so I can’t find the article. The summation was something along the line of, first generation immigrants whether legal or not, drain public finances, but that subsequent generation make up for it, and tend to have higher rated of entrepreneurship. I think. Man, it’s been a while.

Last edited by jcp123; 08-11-2019 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,103 posts, read 3,820,349 times
Reputation: 4119
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
It's so obvious! From an Epoch Times article by AZ Rep. Paul Gosar:

I am a proud co-sponsor of the Border Bonds for America Act of 2019, filed by Rep. Steve Palazzo (R-Miss.). If enacted, this bill would direct the Department of Treasury to issue up to $5 billion in bonds in a fiscal year. The proceeds will be placed in a trust fund for the construction and related infrastructure for the southwest border with Mexico. If this bill were signed into law, Americans could lend money to the federal government by buying wall bonds, just as we did in World War II for war bonds, and the money could be directed for use on the security wall.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-bo...e_3018726.html
It's been proposed before. 2016 was about the first time I heard that argument.
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:46 PM
 
38,500 posts, read 17,027,688 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
Iím married to the daughter of an illegal immigrant. Yeah, I am a bit revolted by the reliance on public services, but theĒcriminal terroristsĒ are mostly a myth. If youíre talking about drug cartels, no wall is going to stand between them and the $$$$$.

On the other hand, I grew up in an environment rich with (mostly) legal, Asian immigrants. I canít put a dollar amount on having people from other cultures who bring texture and perspective to our lives.

Thatís why Iíll let a useless wall get built, if itíll let us just get on with being the tapestry weíve been for a long time.

Easing immigration restrictions would probably be an even better middle course. We know whoís here, and take some pressure off of the impulse to hop the border illegally. Iíll see if I can post the specific Economist article Iím thinking of, if youíll be so kind as to allow me some time.

*EDIT* Well crap, my subscription lapsed, so I canít find the article. The summation was something along the line of, first generation immigrants whether legal or not, drain public finances, but that subsequent generation make up for it, and tend to have higher rated of entrepreneurship. I think. Man, itís been a while.
It may not deter the drug cartels as much but it certainly will deter economic migrants who are raping our country in every way and help prevent criminals and terrorists from getting through our southern border. I have posted several links proving it where the good walls are in place already. Even the Border Patrol and Homeland Security has said that they work and are needed where they are feasible. It's not useless as there are facts that have proven otherwise.

WTH does those of different cultures here legally have to do with the topic at hand? Why should we ease our immigration restrictions to include those we don't need and that will be a fiscal burden to our society? Those coming here illegally are the poor, unskilled and educated. Why would we want or need them here? There is no economic benefit of having them here and no liberal, biased source you post can prove otherwise so don't even bother.

Poverty begets poverty so I'm not falling for that BS either. Legal immigration in restricted numbers is ok but they should not be the type of immigrants that are crashing our border illegally by the millions. We need to go back to diversifying our legal immigration numbers also instead of favoring one particular ethnic group. That doesn't encourage assimilation it's a recipe for colonization.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
989 posts, read 713,636 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
It may not deter the drug cartels as much but it certainly will deter economic migrants who are raping our country in every way and help prevent criminals and terrorists from getting through our southern border. I have posted several links proving it where the good walls are in place already. Even the Border Patrol and Homeland Security has said that they work and are needed where they are feasible. It's not useless as there are facts that have proven otherwise.

WTH does those of different cultures here legally have to do with the topic at hand? Why should we ease our immigration restrictions to include those we don't need and that will be a fiscal burden to our society? Those coming here illegally are the poor, unskilled and educated. Why would we want or need them here? There is no economic benefit of having them here and no liberal, biased source you post can prove otherwise so don't even bother.

Poverty begets poverty so I'm not falling for that BS either. Legal immigration in restricted numbers is ok but they should not be the type of immigrants that are crashing our border illegally by the millions. We need to go back to diversifying our legal immigration numbers also instead of favoring one particular ethnic group. That doesn't encourage assimilation it's a recipe for colonization.
I’m not sure I understand. If it’s criminals and terrorists you want to deter, they’ll use the cartel routes. A wall won’t do much for that, though it’ll help marginally.

What do those of other cultures not have to do with the topic at hand? We can gain a lot by understanding how others think, and use their problem-solving skills to improve our lives. The first time I realized this was seeing how my Father’s Comanche best friend thinks so differently and quickly in ways I never imagined. I didn’t adopt it, but it got mixed into the milieu of how I interact with the world. Ditto for almost any culture I have been around.

The gist of the article looked longer-term than just the immediate drain. Take a 100-year look at how immigration affected America, and you’ll understand that immigration can’t just be digested in a short-term prognosis. If it’s a public finance drain which worries you, go after the safety net and save even more while not costing anything to build a wall.

You’ll find few sources which are not touched by bias. I just benefit from not being tied to any of them.

I don’t recall saying that I’d favor any group for more immigration. I’d have it across the board. That said, you’re not wrong that poverty can beget poverty. However, if you’re going to have poverty come over the border and beget poverty, would you rather it be legal, registered immigrants, or illegal immigrants? I know which I’d choose.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:26 PM
 
38,500 posts, read 17,027,688 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
I’m not sure I understand. If it’s criminals and terrorists you want to deter, they’ll use the cartel routes. A wall won’t do much for that, though it’ll help marginally.

What do those of other cultures not have to do with the topic at hand? We can gain a lot by understanding how others think, and use their problem-solving skills to improve our lives. The first time I realized this was seeing how my Father’s Comanche best friend thinks so differently and quickly in ways I never imagined. I didn’t adopt it, but it got mixed into the milieu of how I interact with the world. Ditto for almost any culture I have been around.

The gist of the article looked longer-term than just the immediate drain. Take a 100-year look at how immigration affected America, and you’ll understand that immigration can’t just be digested in a short-term prognosis. If it’s a public finance drain which worries you, go after the safety net and save even more while not costing anything to build a wall.

You’ll find few sources which are not touched by bias. I just benefit from not being tied to any of them.

I don’t recall saying that I’d favor any group for more immigration. I’d have it across the board. That said, you’re not wrong that poverty can beget poverty. However, if you’re going to have poverty come over the border and beget poverty, would you rather it be legal, registered immigrants, or illegal immigrants? I know which I’d choose.
Economic migrants make up the majority of these illegals and they are raping our country in every way. What part of that didn't you get? Are you still going to deny the facts of the effectiveness of good physical barriers in spite of the facts?

This topic is about border security not getting into the heads of foreigners or talking about how different cultures supposedly enrich us. If there is any enrichment it's from those here legally, not legally.

Are you confused? This topic isn't about legal immigration but illegal immigration, thus the word "border" in the topic heading. Obviously, illegal aliens can't seem to solve the problems in their own countries so WTH could we learn from them? That makes no sense at all!

I can't make any sense out of your third paragraph at all. We need to secure our border, period. Not make some stupid study about "immigrants". I don't want poverty here either legally or illegally but latter is worse because they have no respect for our immigration laws.

I detect a bit of bias on your part since you said there is an illegal alien in your family.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:30 PM
 
25,591 posts, read 12,520,874 times
Reputation: 11042
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBMorgan View Post
Stealing money from the Defense Department's budget is no different - taxpayers paying for a wall that idiot Trump kept talking about MEXICO paying for it. Another lie ignored by his base.
Tough. My money is supporting liberal deadbeats, so build the wall.
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