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The earth is generally agreed to be about 4.5 billion years old. Modern humans appeared around 200,000 years ago. Google it, this is what you will find. This means if the history of the earth were laid out on a football field with one goal line being the origin of the earth and the other goal line being today, modern Homo Sapiens (humans) would appear in the last 0.2 Inch...or about 5 mm for you metric fans. And the modern post-industrial revolution is arguably, what, 300 years old? That's like the last 0.00024 inch, or about 1/10th of the thickness of a piece of paper!
Think about this when people talk about how humans have wrecked the environment and the world is gonna end if we dont enact some debilitating political solution. This big old world has been having temperature tantrums for a very very long time. We are, like it or not, rather inconsequential
Consquentiality is subjective and relative to perspective. From the perspective of a multi billion year old planet, yep - pretty inconsequential. From the perspective of a member of the species being described it matters just a lil bit more. Your point that if we take it too far we will destroy ourselves and the earth will shake it off in the long run is true. Not super comforting when you are a member of the species getting shaken off.
From the perspective of the universe our entire Galaxy might as well be a spec of dust. From the perspective of a bacteria our bodies may be equivalent to a planet in and of themselves. Understanding the correct perspective that has relevance to the topic at hand is a vital part of reading comprehension.
Last edited by zzzSnorlax; 08-13-2019 at 02:19 PM..
2. There is not irrefutable proof that CO2 is a "greenhouse gas". This concept was refuted nearly 100 years ago.
3. plants take up CO2
4. The ocean is in equilibrium with the atmosphere and its buffering capabilities are far from exhausted- the pH of the ocean is 7.8-8.4, which is still basic, not acidic.
5. The planet has had CO2 levels 20x higher in the past and did fine.
The greenhouse gas qualities of carbon dioxide have been known for over a century. In 1861,John Tyndal published laboratory results identifying carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas that absorbed heat rays (longwave radiation).
Since then, the absorptive qualities of carbon dioxide have been more precisely quantified by decades of laboratory measurements (Herzberg 1953, Burch 1962, Burch 1970, etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour
You're right that human existence is just a blip in geologic time scales. A million years from now nobody will even remember global warming of this era. Probably not even a thousand years from now. But the reality that we are living in right now and that our children will be living in is quite a different matter. We are not just outside observers looking at the earth's past, we will be the ones suffering the impact of climate change. It will become increasing disruptive to human life. Really, you could say the same about nuclear war - nobody will even remember it in a million years but that does not mean it is something that should not be avoided.
The problem with the analogy is that we won't be able to avoid the warming. The climate always has changed and will even if people stop producing CO2. We have to find a way to live with it.
The problem with the analogy is that we won't be able to avoid the warming. The climate always has changed and will even if people stop producing CO2. We have to find a way to live with it.
Human caused warming is different than natural warming because of the time scales involved. Inter-glacial periods in the ice ages had warming periods that occurred over thousands of years. We are warming at a rate about 10x faster. Evolution cannot work fast enough to let species evolve on those time scales. And for humans it will likely be very disruptive also. People get desperate when their food and water disappears which will lead to massive migration and conflict. If all we had to worry about were the natural climate trends it would be far easier. Read Jerrod Diamond's work on the collapse of civilizations due to ecological problems caused by the people. It has happened several times, just on a smaller scale.
Human caused warming is different than natural warming because of the time scales involved. Inter-glacial periods in the ice ages had warming periods that occurred over thousands of years. We are warming at a rate about 10x faster. Evolution cannot work fast enough to let species evolve on those time scales. And for humans it will likely be very disruptive also. People get desperate when their food and water disappears which will lead to massive migration and conflict. If all we had to worry about were the natural climate trends it would be far easier. Read Jerrod Diamond's work on the collapse of civilizations due to ecological problems caused by the people. It has happened several times, just on a smaller scale.
Exactly. Humans have adapted to climate change before, albeit with difficulty; just look up the little ice age. Where it gets to be a problem is the rapidity of the change. When too many things change at once, we have trouble coping. The climate change is happening on top of all the other issues humans have introduced, and the combined problems can become overwhelming even given our modern technological acuity.
Exactly. Humans have adapted to climate change before, albeit with difficulty; just look up the little ice age. Where it gets to be a problem is the rapidity of the change. When too many things change at once, we have trouble coping. The climate change is happening on top of all the other issues humans have introduced, and the combined problems can become overwhelming even given our modern technological acuity.
In short, things are piling up and we’ve avoided it like an unpaid bill, and the repo man is knocking and he doesn’t want your money..
From what I can tell, yes, it was 100° in Fort Yukon on one day in July 1915.
Did you read the July report I posted? Did you even look at it? Does it matter? Meh, I'd say no. Your opinion on the matter is meaningless. Hell, so is mine for the most part, though being informed is helpful in electing people who will take the issue seriously and enact legislation to deal with the problem.
I'd be curious to know how old you are and whether you have relatives who are much younger, say, born within the past decade or so.
I will be 35 this year. By 2050 I will be in my mid-60s, and likely dead before 2100. I currently have two nieces: one will be 10 this year and the other one is two. A third niece is expected to be born any day now. Many of my friends have young children too. I bring this up because many of these children who are alive today will still be alive in 2100. Children being born now will be entering their 80s in 2100, and their children and grandchildren will easily live to 2150 and 2200.
Now think that President Tyler, who was born in 1790 and president from 1841-1845, 16 years before the Civil War, still has 2 living grandchildren. Not great grandchildren, just grandchildren.
These timescales are not long. Can you understand why the type of change, amount of change, and speed of change in what has been a relatively stable climate for thousands of years is so alarming to scientists?
So yes, the game you play is called semantics, and it's designed to obfuscate bigger picture issues by getting hung up on irrelevant details and technicalities that are easily resolved but take time and effort away from the main goal, which is to stop anthropogenic climate change from ruining everything people have worked so hard for, have been enslaved for, have died for.
So when I see Siberia and Alaskan tundra on fire, when I see permafrost melting and historically oppressed Native peoples (Americans, mind you) forced out of ancestral homelands because the sea ice is gone, or the ground beneath their feet is swallowed by the sea, when I see the Greenland ice sheet crumbling into the sea, when I see glacier after glacier retreating up mountains or draining into the ocean, when I see cities in the richest state in the richest country in the history of human civilization burning to the ground year after year, you'll see why I don't want to play your stupid games or engage in ridiculous arguments with a person who is convinced that it's all a lie.
Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention.
Nice diatribe. This what happens when coming out of an ice age. Relax, stop getting lathered up over something you can’t change.
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