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Old Today, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
18,469 posts, read 10,248,372 times
Reputation: 7193

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
Lets put the party squabbling aside for the moment...to some degree...and look at the real problem. The Reagan administration "changed" the ways mental institutions were funded, passing the responsibility onto the states along with (here's the catch) a largely reduced budget to work with. Coupled with the belief that the mentally ill and drug addicts have rights and shouldn't be institutionalized despite being a danger to society and/or themselves (looking at you democrats), this has resulted in the closing and defunding of facilities all the while our population has grown and grown. The failure was in a republican administration of the past and the continued enabling has continued through administration after administration of both parties. I said weapons and not guns because weapons are all around us. One can easily use vehicles, chemicals, and combinations of endless off-the-shelf consumer goods to make all kinds of destructive and deadly devices. If we want positive change, taking all the potential "weapons" away isn't going to do a lick of good. We need to institutionalize the addicts and the mentally ill. I've seen our local hospitals ER and even our police reports overflowing with "mental issues". If you've ever watched "I almost got away with it", there was a documentary on a teen drug addict that strangled his own grandmother for $80. Sadly, I have a relative who is an addict and she burglarized her own parents place, assaulted her mother, and has had multiple kids with different men which have all been taken away by the state. Veterans come back from war after watching their army buddy explode into hamburger and fall into substance abuse and deal with PTSD, and aren't cared for or treated. If we want real change, these people need a place to go not waiting lists 3 years long. For many of them, it's hope for them as well, a chance to get clean and/or get mental help, get them off the streets, and would surely make our nation a safer one.
It's not the mental health, even though Trump and the GOP cut funding and recversed Obama's decision that the mentally ill couldn't buy guns.

It's the guns, It has always been the guns, it will always be the guns. Don't allow yourself to be gaslighted.
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Old Today, 06:41 AM
 
11,725 posts, read 8,542,198 times
Reputation: 7213
IIRC, in the 50's one could commit a wife who wouldn't mind pretty easily. All the husband had to do was have a conversation about her behavior with the neighborhood psychiatrist, and in the looney bin she went. No judge, no relative, no corroborating witness were needed.

And then shock treatments were given. My mom had 26 before we got her out.
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Old Today, 06:45 AM
 
11,725 posts, read 8,542,198 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
It's not the mental health, even though Trump and the GOP cut funding and recversed Obama's decision that the mentally ill couldn't buy guns.

It's the guns, It has always been the guns, it will always be the guns. Don't allow yourself to be gaslighted.
The medical professional recently released a study that indicated that 70% of the people who died in mass shootings would have lived if a regular pistol or rifle had been used.

The weapons chosen by the shooters were designed for killing people by doing a lot of damage to bodies.
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Old Today, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,868 posts, read 17,814,068 times
Reputation: 15882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
My daughter tried to slit her wrists when she was 21. She had lot of problems throughout HS and saw a lot of counselors. Back in those days not much was known about BiPiolar.

Before she did, she had a moment of clarity. What am I doing? She checked herself into a hospital where they diagnosed BioPolar. She was put on medication and saw a professional.

Since my kids were children, I demanded my husband lock up his guns. My daughter has told me that if she had access to his guns she might have shot herself. Pulling the trigger of gun to your head is faster than taking a knife and slitting your wrists.

Now here is the problem with guns and mental illness. There is no universal standard. One state rules one way and another state another way. My daughter cannot own a gun in NYS because she was diagnosed with a mental illness. HOWEVER, in Florida she can because she was never was adjudicated against her will with a mental illness. She voluntarily submitted to treatment.

Can you see the problem with mental illness and guns? There is no national standard.
Well-actually it's not. You can get a knife out of the kitchen quicker than you can get a gun, load it, rack the slide and pull the trigger. I hope you also insisted that all the kitchen knives, car keys, gasoline, matches and medicine was also locked up to prevent her access. Honestly-if someone is that "nuts" that they are a danger to themselves or others-they should be in an institution, not free in society where they can harm others.
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Old Today, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,868 posts, read 17,814,068 times
Reputation: 15882
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
The mentally ill are more likely to be victims of crimes than perpetrators.

Let's put aside something, all right. Let's put aside this red herring that the majority of violence (including mass shootings) is a mental health issue.

It's not.
Um NO! Ignoring the threat the violently mentally ill pose is beyond idiotic-and guarantees more incidents like El Paso, Dayton, LV, etc. Are all the mentally ill a threat? No. Are all mass shooters mentally deficient in some way? YES. It is critically important to actually evaluate the source of the problem, and not shift the blame to inanimate objects, or to mentally healthy, law abiding people.
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Old Today, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,663 posts, read 34,377,872 times
Reputation: 15508
States began closing institutions in the 50ís because many had become political embarrassments and were a drain on state resources. Closures persisted throughout the US in the subsequent decades for similar reasons.

The criteria for institutionalization back then was high variable. A wealthy and influential father had his daughter committed and a lobotomy performed because her behavior was an embarrassment to his family.

Nothing about any sensational mass shooter would have remotely warranted permanent institutionalization.

Most people with serious mental health issues do not consider themselves sick and donít seek professional help.

Nothing precludes anyone from calling 911 if they are struggling with intentions to harm themselves or others.
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Old Today, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,663 posts, read 34,377,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Involuntary commitment is the answer, it was stopped by liberals.
Involuntary commitment is alive and well in every state.
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Old Today, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,868 posts, read 17,814,068 times
Reputation: 15882
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
The medical professional recently released a study that indicated that 70% of the people who died in mass shootings would have lived if a regular pistol or rifle had been used.

The weapons chosen by the shooters were designed for killing people by doing a lot of damage to bodies.
Just what is a "regular" rifle? Rifles such as the AR-15 shoot a lower powered, much less lethal round than most "hunting rifles". In fact the .22 caliber round they shoot is not legal to use for big game hunting in many states, since it lacks the "killing power" to ensure a clean, humane kill on deer-sized game. The average "hunting rifle" is far more lethal. In a confined area-by far the most lethal firearm is a shotgun, not a rifle of any type.
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Old Today, 07:13 AM
 
1,935 posts, read 555,883 times
Reputation: 2396
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
The mentally ill are more likely to be victims of crimes than perpetrators.

Let's put aside something, all right. Let's put aside this red herring that the majority of violence (including mass shootings) is a mental health issue.

It's not.
Yep. You can see the true issue clearly when the hardcore 2a guys use the red herring every chance they get.
These boys that committed these mass shootings were lucid sane individuals that got the ideas from other individuals just like them.
They cant be painted with a "mentally ill" brush just because its an easy out to avoid enforcing the laws that are already in place.
These boys planned the attacks, and more of them are planning the attacks now.
The easy access to the guns is part of the issue, and the lack of law enforcement.
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Old Today, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,663 posts, read 34,377,872 times
Reputation: 15508
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
Hey, I took a stab at both parties in that to be fair.
There is no need to look further back at the deinstitutionalization as a who did it, it's history and it is what it is. Current day revolving door democratic justice system policies have me pretty angry to be honest regarding the homeless and druggies in our locale but that's another issue sort of. To move forward it's obvious we need to un-deinstitutionalize, those who belong there aren't going to get better on their own.
Deinstitutionalization is a global thing.

There are mentally ill people all over the world.

Mental illness is a huge spectrum. Nothing about any of these sensational mass shooters suggested they were mentally incompetent. Not likely any of them would have disclosed their intentions and plans to engage in a sensational mass shooting, if they had sought professional help.

Sensational mass shootings are not impulsive actions. The El Paso shooter had a plan and drove for 10 hours to his target. He prepared a swell cut/ paste manifesto and anonymously uploaded it to 8 Chan, minutes before the big event. Las Vegas shooter checked into the hotel days before the big event and made multiple trips to one of his homes for his arsenal.

Most sensational mass shooters do not expect to survive the event. It is a fulfillment of their narcissism. The last word.
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