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Old 08-13-2019, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,485,375 times
Reputation: 15572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
My daughter tried to slit her wrists when she was 21. She had lot of problems throughout HS and saw a lot of counselors. Back in those days not much was known about BiPiolar.

Before she did, she had a moment of clarity. What am I doing? She checked herself into a hospital where they diagnosed BioPolar. She was put on medication and saw a professional.

Since my kids were children, I demanded my husband lock up his guns. My daughter has told me that if she had access to his guns she might have shot herself. Pulling the trigger of gun to your head is faster than taking a knife and slitting your wrists.

Now here is the problem with guns and mental illness. There is no universal standard. One state rules one way and another state another way. My daughter cannot own a gun in NYS because she was diagnosed with a mental illness. HOWEVER, in Florida she can because she was never was adjudicated against her will with a mental illness. She voluntarily submitted to treatment.

Can you see the problem with mental illness and guns? There is no national standard.
Bipolar, like all mental illnesses, is a spectrum, mild to severe. Most are not diagnosed. There is no magic bullet medication that effectively reduces symptoms in all who are diagnosed. No one can be forced to take their medications, as directed.

Most sensational mass shooters had not sought professional help and were not medicated

As you know, those with a Bipolar diagnosis are far more likely to harm themselves, than others.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
6,418 posts, read 4,249,196 times
Reputation: 4932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Um NO! Ignoring the threat the violently mentally ill pose is beyond idiotic-and guarantees more incidents like El Paso, Dayton, LV, etc. Are all the mentally ill a threat? No. Are all mass shooters mentally deficient in some way? YES. It is critically important to actually evaluate the source of the problem, and not shift the blame to inanimate objects, or to mentally healthy, law abiding people.
You're putting the cart before the horse.

Will perpetrators of incidents like you list be determined to be mentally ill?

Maybe, certainly it's common to believe that. However James Holmes (Aurora) was found competent to stand trial. If he's competent to stand trial he's not mentally ill enough to have his rights restricted prior to committing criminal acts.

Nearly every mass shooting perp has by media been determined to be mentally ill, but that doesn't make it true.

Issue is most people cannot reconcile that most people when pressed into certain circumstances will respond with homicidal acts, it's just a matter of circumstances, and what those triggers are. Some folks will flip out from Twitter and Facebook, some only when their lives or the lives of their loved ones are threatened.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,485,375 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Why should dangerously mentally ill people own cars, vote or even go into restaurants?
How do you know someone is dangerously mentally ill before they harm?
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:33 AM
 
Location: SGV
25,399 posts, read 9,886,503 times
Reputation: 9862
All I know is that I have a firm trust in the State to determine who is mentally fit and who is not.

It's why I pay taxes.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,485,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Anyone so mentally ill that they murder others should be stigmatized.

According to the left, that's the vast majority of people with any mental disorder.
Do you need a hand with that broad brush.

Mental illness is bipartisan.

The inability to distinguish between one and few and many and most and all is evidence of cognitive issues and disordered thinking.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:36 AM
 
67,042 posts, read 30,725,004 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Bipolar, like all mental illnesses, is a spectrum, mild to severe. Most are not diagnosed. There is no magic bullet medication that effectively reduces symptoms in all who are diagnosed. No one can be forced to take their medications, as directed.

Most sensational mass shooters had not sought professional help and were not medicated

As you know, those with a Bipolar diagnosis are far more likely to harm themselves, than others.
Exactly. The ACLU will fight against "red flag" law gun confiscation prior to due process and/or including mental health history in background checks as they're a violation of HIPAA. And, as you noted, what's currently being proposed will act as a deterrent to those who actually need to seek help for mental health issues.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,485,375 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
States began closing their institutions decades before Reagan. Most had become political embarrassments and a drain on state resources. Nothing precludes any state from funding, building and operating institutions.

Nothing about any of the sensational mass shooters qualified them for permanent institutionalization before the big event.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,485,375 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Mentally ill people haven’t been able to obtain firearms since 1968.

Where have you been?

Of course, you know that. You just want to redefine what “mentally ill” means. Maybe to you anybody who dares to disagree with you is mentally ill. Now that would be an honest discussion.
“Adjudicated as mentally defective and/ or committed to any mental institution” is the Federal Law. Each state may define committed and mental institution as they see fit to do.

None of the sensational mass shooters had been adjudicated as mentally defective. Florida has the Baker Act which allows for a temporary involuntary evaluation, which is not the same thing as committed to an institution. Other states have similar laws under different names.

Mental health professionals are not mind readers and most people being evaluated are not honest about their intentions to harm themselves or others.

The US and the world is full of mentally ill people or people who spend unreasonable amounts of time playing violent video games or people who are prescribed medications for anxiety and depression or those who seek others online with similar ideologies. And some self radicalize. The difference in the US is access to firearms.

Some countries require mental evaluations as one of many conditions to legally purchase and posses a firearm. Some of these countries impose continued evaluations as one of the many conditions to continue to possess a firearm. A critical part of the process is reason for owning/ possessing a firearm. Self defense and fun are rarely acceptable criteria. Most countries limit the amount and type of ammunition legal holders can possess.

Gun ownership and physical possession are privileges, not a right as it is in the US. Thus the dilemma.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,485,375 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
I wish we had more stories of mass shooters who fake being mentally ill (clinical) and are actually just "Evil". In other words, the mental illness card won't fly but capital punishment would.
Most sensational mass shooters don’t expect to survive the event. Those few that do are usually determined to be competent to stand trial.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,485,375 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Well-actually it's not. You can get a knife out of the kitchen quicker than you can get a gun, load it, rack the slide and pull the trigger. I hope you also insisted that all the kitchen knives, car keys, gasoline, matches and medicine was also locked up to prevent her access. Honestly-if someone is that "nuts" that they are a danger to themselves or others-they should be in an institution, not free in society where they can harm others.
How exactly do you determine someone is that “ nuts” BEFORE they plan and engage in a sensational mass shooting or stabbing?
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