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Old 08-13-2019, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,493,190 times
Reputation: 15572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Um NO! Ignoring the threat the violently mentally ill pose is beyond idiotic-and guarantees more incidents like El Paso, Dayton, LV, etc. Are all the mentally ill a threat? No. Are all mass shooters mentally deficient in some way? YES. It is critically important to actually evaluate the source of the problem, and not shift the blame to inanimate objects, or to mentally healthy, law abiding people.
How exactly do you determine the potential for a mass shooting BEFORE someone plans and executes a mass shooting?
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,727 posts, read 20,282,326 times
Reputation: 8499
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
“Adjudicated as mentally defective and/ or committed to any mental institution” is the Federal Law. Each state may define committed and mental institution as they see fit to do.

None of the sensational mass shooters had been adjudicated as mentally defective. Florida has the Baker Act which allows for a temporary involuntary evaluation, which is not the same thing as committed to an institution. Other states have similar laws under different names.

Mental health professionals are not mind readers and most people being evaluated are not honest about their intentions to harm themselves or others.

The US and the world is full of mentally ill people or people who spend unreasonable amounts of time playing violent video games or people who are prescribed medications for anxiety and depression or those who seek others online with similar ideologies. And some self radicalize. The difference in the US is access to firearms.

Some countries require mental evaluations as one of many conditions to legally purchase and posses a firearm. Some of these countries impose continued evaluations as one of the many conditions to continue to possess a firearm. A critical part of the process is reason for owning/ possessing a firearm. Self defense and fun are rarely acceptable criteria. Most countries limit the amount and type of ammunition legal holders can possess.

Gun ownership and physical possession are privileges, not a right as it is in the US. Thus the dilemma.


"Mental health professionals are not mind readers"
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,493,190 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Hemi View Post
Yep. You can see the true issue clearly when the hardcore 2a guys use the red herring every chance they get.
These boys that committed these mass shootings were lucid sane individuals that got the ideas from other individuals just like them.
They cant be painted with a "mentally ill" brush just because its an easy out to avoid enforcing the laws that are already in place.
These boys planned the attacks, and more of them are planning the attacks now.
The easy access to the guns is part of the issue, and the lack of law enforcement.
With few exceptions, all were capable of managing their own affairs and did so. They all planned the big event. And most did not expect to survive. The shooting is the ultimate fulfillment of the shooter’s narcissism.

The pace of sensational mass shootings has increased with the maturation of social media and radicalization. It is one of many factors.

Every sensational mass shooting inspires the next.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:47 AM
 
13,094 posts, read 10,133,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Involuntary commitment is the answer, it was stopped by liberals.
So only gun toting people have civil rights?
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,493,190 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
You're putting the cart before the horse.

Will perpetrators of incidents like you list be determined to be mentally ill?

Maybe, certainly it's common to believe that. However James Holmes (Aurora) was found competent to stand trial. If he's competent to stand trial he's not mentally ill enough to have his rights restricted prior to committing criminal acts.

Nearly every mass shooting perp has by media been determined to be mentally ill, but that doesn't make it true.

Issue is most people cannot reconcile that most people when pressed into certain circumstances will respond with homicidal acts, it's just a matter of circumstances, and what those triggers are. Some folks will flip out from Twitter and Facebook, some only when their lives or the lives of their loved ones are threatened.
The few who survive are usually deemed competent to stand trial.

The Florida Parkland shooter’s defense team is seeking to create a strong enough case for insanity to void capital punishment. They are digging deep into his bio mother’s and family history and have uncovered a bio family history of serious mental illness and addiction including his bio mother’s use of drugs during pregnancy. They now know a lot more about his bio family than his adoptive family of he ever knew.

Did this history make him more vulnerable to self radicalization?
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,493,190 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Exactly. The ACLU will fight against "red flag" law gun confiscation prior to due process and/or including mental health history in background checks as they're a violation of HIPAA. And, as you noted, what's currently being proposed will act as a deterrent to those who actually need to seek help for mental health issues.
17 states and DC have Red Flag Laws and an appeals processes. No two states have the same laws. Most restrict who can file a petition.

No one knows what Trump meant when he said he supports Red Flag and that might include him. He supports state laws? He wants a federal law? Lip service?
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Barrington
46,888 posts, read 34,493,190 times
Reputation: 15572
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
"Mental health professionals are not mind readers"
Very, very challenging to determine someone’s future potential for serious mass violence in absence of a history of serious mass violence.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Ohio
5,144 posts, read 1,862,628 times
Reputation: 4299
It's a factor but it really dodges the reality of the situation. When you have a population that is flooded with weapons of mass lethality, no amount of mental health treatment or screening is going to solve the problem. At least in last few years, few of the mass shooters were mentally ill in any clinical sense.
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:22 PM
Status: "Time for 25" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Columbia, SC
7,598 posts, read 4,563,422 times
Reputation: 9072
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
The Florida Parkland shooter’s defense team is seeking to create a strong enough case for insanity to void capital punishment. They are digging deep into his bio mother’s and family history and have uncovered a bio family history of serious mental illness and addiction including his bio mother’s use of drugs during pregnancy. They now know a lot more about his bio family than his adoptive family of he ever knew.
It's their job to get their client off as best they can, in this case, to escape the chair. It's not their job to tell us the truth about his background.
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
996 posts, read 1,148,986 times
Reputation: 1105
There will always be a fine line or who is or who isn't mentally ill and what their intent is, but let me reiterate my point more clearly. When I see homeless on my city streets that are multiple repeat offenders, have pages of rap sheet for drugs, theft, burglary, and assault, and they are babbling to themselves incoherently and cussing at the sky as they walk along, these are the people that should be institutionalized and EVERYONE would be better off. Yet one of my co-workers narrowly escaped being stabbed in the head by a homeless man squatting in a restaurants bathroom and 2 days later the guy was back on the street again.
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