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Old 08-13-2019, 10:27 PM
 
1,861 posts, read 1,014,178 times
Reputation: 901

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
Germany should pay up or be penalized.



Let's try again: majority want US out. Got it?
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Old Yesterday, 02:00 AM
 
1,593 posts, read 354,413 times
Reputation: 1607
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
They saved all that cash on a military and still got foreign aid from the USA.
Typical socialist. Want it all and don't want to pay for it.
https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/DEU?fi...re=Obligations

Makes no sense.
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Old Yesterday, 02:03 AM
 
1,593 posts, read 354,413 times
Reputation: 1607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post

Beauty? Some places are beautiful, but many are not.
Depends on the region. Isn't it the same in the US if you are honest?
maybe the dumbest comment on this forum - and there have been many -
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Old Yesterday, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Metro Seattle Area - Born and Raised
747 posts, read 303,326 times
Reputation: 1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBMorgan View Post
We made it our requirement. We did it for ourselves. We'd rather fight the Russians in Europe then in NY/DC/Boston.

Germany has been one of our great allies since the WWII. Not sure why anyone would all of a sudden demonize the country.

Oh, I know. Idiot Trump doesn't like Merkel.
Many of us do not have an issue with Germany... Heck, my mother is German, I speak some German, love German food (Go figure!!) and I served in Germany during the Cold War... Even trained with the German Army... To defend Germany and her people from a possible invasion from the East.

The problem is that Germany is greatly benefiting from U.S. Military protection and refuses to pay her fair share of 2%... Which is a serious deal, if you do the math, when she can. Plus, Merkel and her counterpart in France wants to create an EU Army... Which Germany will end up paying far more than 2% to maintain this new military force.

Do I agree with everything Trump does? No, but in this case, I agree with him since it's the American tax payer that ends up paying the difference in higher taxes and less social services for our own people. Btw, yes, I'm a nationalist... Sorry, not a White nationalist since the other half of my bloodline is from West Africa.

The world has changed and its not the 1950s or the 1980s. NATO needs to change with the times and if the member States do not feel NATO is worth the investment, than end this alliance and let Germany build one that fits her needs, while we do the same. We will end up with most of Eastern Europe wanting to be allied with the United States and our long time ally, the United Kingdom in creating a new alliance of willing partners that will be far more active in their own defense.

I'm pretty sure most of the German population want the American Army and Air Force out of their country and we should respect the will of the German people and leave, on good terms. Basically a friendly "divorce" since the love is long gone.
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Old Yesterday, 07:05 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,838 posts, read 19,477,087 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBMorgan View Post
maybe the dumbest comment on this forum - and there have been many -
Why is that?
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Old Yesterday, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,875 posts, read 17,824,658 times
Reputation: 15884
Germany is kinda like the irresponsible, alcoholic relative that always shows up for holiday get-togethers for the free food and booze, but never contributed anything to the party. But yah, they have migrants!
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Old Yesterday, 07:31 AM
 
2,587 posts, read 888,187 times
Reputation: 1806
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBMorgan View Post
Why? Because after WWII, they were told that they couldn't field a huge military - has been that way for over a half a century. Now if the United States wants to free the reigns and allow them to bolster its military, that will change things.

Germany has done very well after being demolished and had to completely rebuild. No small task for its people. Marshall Plan courtesy of USA helped fund that. Thanks to US. Then in 1990 it completely assumed a complete country (E. Germany) as a part of it's own. Again, no small task. Thankfully we assisted w/ being its defense for much of the time with a ton of bases and Soldiers there. We're doing the same in S. Korea and the rest of the world. It's our own fault but what the military leaders and politicians thought important to do (to keep Russia at bay).

Paying a certain part of GDP toward military is grossly different than "PAYING NATO".....such fake news by Faux and the diplomats tweeting. It's not the same thing.
Exactly correct^^^

I am tired of this false narrative about 2% GDP defense spending being "paying their share of NATO". The two are completely different. The US pays NATO only $685 million (which is 0.004% of our GDP) in direct support.

The US spends about 3.5% of its GDP on defense. But we have forces spread all over the world. Only about 5% of our military spending is directly related to defense of Europe. Germany's military is mostly confined to Western Europe. They spend 1.2%, which is probably enough to accomplish their mission. Do we want or expect them to build aircraft carriers and police the Persian Gulf and the South China Sea? I doubt it.

https://www.iiss.org/blogs/military-...osts-and-value

Rather than ask Germany to spend as much on military as we do, my suggestion is that we reduce our own spending closer to what they spend. The dollars we waste on the war machine is obscene.
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 AM
 
17,957 posts, read 19,931,071 times
Reputation: 7569
Pay what you owe Germany, or we shall leave... You are not the only country close to Russia...
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 AM
 
Location: USA
18,620 posts, read 9,139,747 times
Reputation: 13987
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
I don't care what motivates them. We spend a fortune on bases and Germany's defense and we have since the end of WW II. We owe them nothing . They have money to burn on their own citizens, as we should be doing, because we are their shield. Let them stand alone or pay for our services.
The U.S. subsidizes the German National Defense, and helps enable their Social Welfare State and the importation of Muslim refugees that is changing the nature of the country. The German people are starting to realize this, I think, and are starting to push back.

I'd like to see the U.S. reduce their presence in Germany, and much of Europe. The Cold War is over, and conventional warfare is obsolete. Russia can never be trusted, but we have other means to deal with them besides, tanks, planes, artillery, and troops based in Europe.
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Old Yesterday, 07:45 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,838 posts, read 19,477,087 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
The U.S. subsidizes the German National Defense, and helps enable their Social Welfare State and the importation of Muslim refugees that is changing the nature of the country. The German people are starting to realize this, I think, and are starting to push back.

I'd like to see the U.S. reduce their presence in Germany, and much of Europe. The Cold War is over, and conventional warfare is obsolete. Russia can never be trusted, but we have other means to deal with them besides, tanks, planes, artillery, and troops based in Europe.
That makes no sense. The Germans alone pay for their social welfare state. The cost of defense (regardless of who pays for it) is tiny compared to the cost of the social security net. It is financed with the taxes and contributions payed by citizens and companies.

Nor are Germans pushing back, whatever you mean by that. Most Germans don't mind immigrants. Nor are immigrants changing the nature of the country, whatever you mean by that. The constitution and laws have not been changed with regard to immigrants.

Russia can be trusted as much or little as the US or China. That's what Germans have realized, since the Snowden leaks at the latest.
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