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Old 08-15-2019, 02:35 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,757 posts, read 668,878 times
Reputation: 1200

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"The surprising answer is 'yes."

Thank you for your VERY BASED OPINION. You know what the ysay about opinions?
Fine, so how about you knock it down. As I said, I went into it expecting it to be easy to knock down. After reading several histories--not so much.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:37 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,757 posts, read 668,878 times
Reputation: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
It's cheaper helping people in their home countries.

Give to boots on the ground charities like missionaries, Doctors Without Borders, Heifer International, Habitat for Humanity's Global Village
The problem is that the help so often gets siphoned off by corrupt oligarchs. This phenomenon has often been seen in Africa too.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:55 PM
 
6,607 posts, read 9,133,275 times
Reputation: 2858
From my observation people in Latin America,Africa and Asia have been f-ked over by both left wing and right wing tyrants. These tyrants were backed by western powers and Marxist powers at the time.

In this day and age with the Cold War being over leaders of these countries are going to have to make a conscious effort to reduce corruption and implement economic policies that have been shown to diversify and grow economies.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:30 PM
 
924 posts, read 453,103 times
Reputation: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
Right wing as currently used in common US political parlance means limited government and individualism. Ted Cruz, for example would be the current epitome of 'right wing.'

The systems they had in Central America, keeping in mind they were not all exactly the same, were more feudal than anything else. Large landowners, backed up by (often) US military power, with masses of landless peasants working for subsistence wages (or less).

In Honduras, for example, two entrepreneurs from New Orleans, with a private army, started buying up land on the north coast of Honduras where they had giant banana plantations. One of his mercenaries, a black guy named Lee Christmas, later became US ambassador.

When they ran into trouble with the locals, they would lobby Washington DC for support. No problem, just install a more compliant Honduran leadership and then business as usual. This often would be in response to threats of land redistribution or nationalization of businesses. It roughly started under Teddy Roosevelt, and continued under Democrats and Republicans alike.
Trump is the current epitome of "right wing" in the U.S., mostly meaning cronyism and nepotism. Trump is the face and ideological leader of American conservatism.
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,188 posts, read 14,385,660 times
Reputation: 16400
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
A majority of those crossing the southern border now come from Central America (mainly Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras). I've seen the meme that this is the result of US foreign policy in C.A. I figured that it was far-left tripe/trope that could easily be knocked down. I went to my local library and checked out some books. The surprising answer is that this 'meme' is largely correct.

US meddling in Central America goes back a long way, but really acclivated around 1900 when US-based fruit growers moved into the area, always lobbying DC for military and other forms of support, which they usually got. We were the marionettes, installing some dictators and deposing others. We fomented some revolutions and quashed others.

The US militarily occupied Nicaragua starting under President Wilson, from 1912 to 1932. In 1954, the CIA got rid of liberal Jacabo Arbenz Guzman in Guatemala, who had been duly elected with 65% in 1950. In 1980, when the entire region was blowing up from violence, a State Dept. official remarked, "what we wouldn't give for an Arbenz today." Many, many other similar examples of meddling exist.

We propped up military dictatorships and oligarchs, in return for a steady supply of cheap bananas, coffee, and other goods and raw materials.

Now in 2019, over 100 years of misguided meddling comes back to bite at the border.
Yes, indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Oh here we go again blaming the U.S. for illegal immigration and the bogus asylum seekers crashing our border (insert rolling eyes here).
The claim is valid.

Had the US taught and supported democracy, instead of propping up dictatorships and raping the people of their wealth and resources, they wouldn't have a need to emigrate to anywhere.

After all, it was Truwoman who authorized the murder of President Arbenz of Guatemala for the heinous crime of building a port and a electrical power plant.

Eisencoward commuted Abenz' sentence to just overthrow, but if he died during the coup, too bad as far as Eisencoward was concerned.

You see, Chiquita took over the port during a previous US coup. All the taxes, tariffs and duties levied on imports and exports were paid directly to Chiquita and $0 went to Guatemala.

Truwoman panicked like a sissy, because the west coast port being built by Arbenz would charge reasonable taxes, tariffs and duties and not the highway robbery fees Chiquita charged, plus it meant that ships wouldn't have to transit the Panama Canal, so the US would lose money on transit fees.

Since Chiquita controlled the only electrical power generation plant, Chiquita charged monopoly rates for electricity, far more than what Americans were paying.

The plant being built by Arbenz would have charged far less. In 1950 the average American paid $9-$12/month for electricity, but Chiquita was making Guatemalans pay $20-$24/month. The Guatemalan government would have charged $1-$2/month.

At that time, $1 was equal to about 7.5 Quetzals more or less (the Guatemalan currency) and the Cost-of-Living in Guatemala was far less than that of the US.

Historically, the US has been nothing short of a plague on this Earth. When the US wasn't robbing and raping countries of their wealth and resources, they were propping up dictators or both.
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:39 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,757 posts, read 668,878 times
Reputation: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Yes, indeed.



The claim is valid.

Had the US taught and supported democracy, instead of propping up dictatorships and raping the people of their wealth and resources, they wouldn't have a need to emigrate to anywhere.

After all, it was Truwoman who authorized the murder of President Arbenz of Guatemala for the heinous crime of building a port and a electrical power plant.

Eisencoward commuted Abenz' sentence to just overthrow, but if he died during the coup, too bad as far as Eisencoward was concerned.

You see, Chiquita took over the port during a previous US coup. All the taxes, tariffs and duties levied on imports and exports were paid directly to Chiquita and $0 went to Guatemala.

Truwoman panicked like a sissy, because the west coast port being built by Arbenz would charge reasonable taxes, tariffs and duties and not the highway robbery fees Chiquita charged, plus it meant that ships wouldn't have to transit the Panama Canal, so the US would lose money on transit fees.

Since Chiquita controlled the only electrical power generation plant, Chiquita charged monopoly rates for electricity, far more than what Americans were paying.

The plant being built by Arbenz would have charged far less. In 1950 the average American paid $9-$12/month for electricity, but Chiquita was making Guatemalans pay $20-$24/month. The Guatemalan government would have charged $1-$2/month.

At that time, $1 was equal to about 7.5 Quetzals more or less (the Guatemalan currency) and the Cost-of-Living in Guatemala was far less than that of the US.

Historically, the US has been nothing short of a plague on this Earth. When the US wasn't robbing and raping countries of their wealth and resources, they were propping up dictators or both.
spot on, and to reiterate, after all this eventuated in horrible violence and civil war, around 1980 a US state dept. guy said, "what we wouldn't give for an Arbenz today."

In 1970 Guatemalan President Asana declared that he would turn 'Guatemala into a cemetery' if necessary to put down rebellion of peasants. He killed over 1000 opposition political leaders within a week of taking office.
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:44 PM
 
48,925 posts, read 45,885,698 times
Reputation: 15553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Oh here we go again blaming the U.S. for illegal immigration and the bogus asylum seekers crashing our border (insert rolling eyes here).
Can you refute and of this though?
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:44 PM
 
37,564 posts, read 16,634,263 times
Reputation: 10168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Yes, indeed.



The claim is valid.

Had the US taught and supported democracy, instead of propping up dictatorships and raping the people of their wealth and resources, they wouldn't have a need to emigrate to anywhere.

After all, it was Truwoman who authorized the murder of President Arbenz of Guatemala for the heinous crime of building a port and a electrical power plant.

Eisencoward commuted Abenz' sentence to just overthrow, but if he died during the coup, too bad as far as Eisencoward was concerned.

You see, Chiquita took over the port during a previous US coup. All the taxes, tariffs and duties levied on imports and exports were paid directly to Chiquita and $0 went to Guatemala.

Truwoman panicked like a sissy, because the west coast port being built by Arbenz would charge reasonable taxes, tariffs and duties and not the highway robbery fees Chiquita charged, plus it meant that ships wouldn't have to transit the Panama Canal, so the US would lose money on transit fees.

Since Chiquita controlled the only electrical power generation plant, Chiquita charged monopoly rates for electricity, far more than what Americans were paying.

The plant being built by Arbenz would have charged far less. In 1950 the average American paid $9-$12/month for electricity, but Chiquita was making Guatemalans pay $20-$24/month. The Guatemalan government would have charged $1-$2/month.

At that time, $1 was equal to about 7.5 Quetzals more or less (the Guatemalan currency) and the Cost-of-Living in Guatemala was far less than that of the US.

Historically, the US has been nothing short of a plague on this Earth. When the US wasn't robbing and raping countries of their wealth and resources, they were propping up dictators or both.
May I suggest you move to a country that you don't hate?
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:48 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
13,896 posts, read 8,732,743 times
Reputation: 20232
Quote:
Did US policy in Central America lead to the crisis on the border? The surprising answer is 'yes.'
Yes, I know. It's just awful, isn't it, the way we created all the problems in Central America, Venezuela, The Middle East, Africa and China.... (Sobs uncontrollably...)
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:53 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,988 posts, read 21,251,486 times
Reputation: 9516

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x201zBPnP4w
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