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Old Yesterday, 07:29 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,607 posts, read 639,711 times
Reputation: 1140

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A majority of those crossing the southern border now come from Central America (mainly Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras). I've seen the meme that this is the result of US foreign policy in C.A. I figured that it was far-left tripe/trope that could easily be knocked down. I went to my local library and checked out some books. The surprising answer is that this 'meme' is largely correct.

US meddling in Central America goes back a long way, but really acclivated around 1900 when US-based fruit growers moved into the area, always lobbying DC for military and other forms of support, which they usually got. We were the marionettes, installing some dictators and deposing others. We fomented some revolutions and quashed others.

The US militarily occupied Nicaragua starting under President Wilson, from 1912 to 1932. In 1954, the CIA got rid of liberal Jacabo Arbenz Guzman in Guatemala, who had been duly elected with 65% in 1950. In 1980, when the entire region was blowing up from violence, a State Dept. official remarked, "what we wouldn't give for an Arbenz today." Many, many other similar examples of meddling exist.

We propped up military dictatorships and oligarchs, in return for a steady supply of cheap bananas, coffee, and other goods and raw materials.

Now in 2019, over 100 years of misguided meddling comes back to bite at the border.
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Old Yesterday, 07:33 PM
 
37,488 posts, read 16,588,180 times
Reputation: 10144
Oh here we go again blaming the U.S. for illegal immigration and the bogus asylum seekers crashing our border (insert rolling eyes here).
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Old Yesterday, 07:35 PM
 
7,413 posts, read 2,689,336 times
Reputation: 2934
For a more recent example read up on the El Salvador civil war and the U.S. involvement in same. It was out of this that MS-13 was born.

https://www.thenation.com/article/ti...o-el-salvador/
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Old Yesterday, 07:50 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,607 posts, read 639,711 times
Reputation: 1140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Oh here we go again blaming the U.S. for illegal immigration and the bogus asylum seekers crashing our border (insert rolling eyes here).
There are some caveats to post #1. El Salvador successfully resisted interaction with the US for decades, until around the 1960s. Yet they followed a similar path of military/oligarchy dictatorship. Even prior to US involvement, 14 families controlled most of the land and wealth.

Costa Rica was kind of the Finland of Central America--liberal, democratic, and with a large welfare state. They too had significant US interaction, but for reasons unknown to me, it did not affect them as negatively. They have certainly not been without problems, but not to the extent of the others. Costa Rica for decades has been a favored destination for US retirees. And they take in more illegal immigrants than they send to the US.

It was always a two way street, with locals in Central America acting in concert with Washington DC to repress and abuse the masses of peasants. But there is no question that historically the US shoulders a large share of the blame.
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Old Yesterday, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Texas
87 posts, read 17,026 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
A majority of those crossing the southern border now come from Central America (mainly Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras). I've seen the meme that this is the result of US foreign policy in C.A. I figured that it was far-left tripe/trope that could easily be knocked down. I went to my local library and checked out some books. The surprising answer is that this 'meme' is largely correct.

US meddling in Central America goes back a long way, but really acclivated around 1900 when US-based fruit growers moved into the area, always lobbying DC for military and other forms of support, which they usually got. We were the marionettes, installing some dictators and deposing others. We fomented some revolutions and quashed others.

The US militarily occupied Nicaragua starting under President Wilson, from 1912 to 1932. In 1954, the CIA got rid of liberal Jacabo Arbenz Guzman in Guatemala, who had been duly elected with 65% in 1950. In 1980, when the entire region was blowing up from violence, a State Dept. official remarked, "what we wouldn't give for an Arbenz today." Many, many other similar examples of meddling exist.

We propped up military dictatorships and oligarchs, in return for a steady supply of cheap bananas, coffee, and other goods and raw materials.

Now in 2019, over 100 years of misguided meddling comes back to bite at the border.
Itís been my experience traveling these countries there are people living their lives just like you and I. They have jobs, a house, kids go to school, play after school sports, they take vacations just like us. They arenít coming here.

The lame and lazy are who is coming, for a variety of reasons, but mostly they canít make it in their country and their are menial jobs in the US they.can do not as readily available in their country. Plus the freebies we taxpayers love to throw at them in the name of good will.

It really is this simple.
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Old Yesterday, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
14,963 posts, read 12,402,241 times
Reputation: 26594
Just BS excuses. These fake asylum seekers are just trying to exploit our strong economy and our generosity. They (Undocumented Democrats) basically want to steal our resources.
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Old Yesterday, 08:10 PM
 
7,413 posts, read 2,689,336 times
Reputation: 2934
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiancoconut View Post
Just BS excuses. These fake asylum seekers are just trying to exploit our strong economy and our generosity. They (Undocumented Democrats) basically want to steal our resources.
So U.S. was not involved in the war crimes committed by the El Salvador dictatorship during its civil war? Where their death squads literally were dumping bodies in the ocean. Now they are left with a country that is ruled by street gangs. Most notoriously MS-13. Who began as refugees from the CIA backed dictatorship.

Trump himself has been against country building. This is what happens when you back a dictatorship because they can be bought off.
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Old Yesterday, 08:23 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,607 posts, read 639,711 times
Reputation: 1140
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBouy View Post
It’s been my experience traveling these countries there are people living their lives just like you and I. They have jobs, a house, kids go to school, play after school sports, they take vacations just like us. They aren’t coming here.

The lame and lazy are who is coming, for a variety of reasons, but mostly they can’t make it in their country and their are menial jobs in the US they.can do not as readily available in their country. Plus the freebies we taxpayers love to throw at them in the name of good will.

It really is this simple.
This is way wrong.

An interesting book that recently came out is Solita, Solita, which is a series of in depth interviews of 15 immigrants from Central America. They walk through deserts and swamps, and cling to the tops of freight train cars, which they call 'la bestia' (the beast) to get to the US.

It doesn't sound like a bunch of lazy and lame.

I will say that if you read the book, some of the immigrants are not fleeing as a result of bad foreign policy. One of them, a guy named Gabriel Mendez from Honduras, talks about how he was raped and molested as a child by 'bad cousins.' Hard to blame that on US foreign policy. He escaped to the US and wound up as a college student in Oakland, CA.

BTW, of the 15 interviewed for the book, 5 were from Honduras, 4 from El Salvador, and 6 from Guatemala.
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Old Yesterday, 08:25 PM
 
910 posts, read 450,405 times
Reputation: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBouy View Post
Itís been my experience traveling these countries there are people living their lives just like you and I. They have jobs, a house, kids go to school, play after school sports, they take vacations just like us. They arenít coming here.

The lame and lazy are who is coming, for a variety of reasons, but mostly they canít make it in their country and their are menial jobs in the US they.can do not as readily available in their country. Plus the freebies we taxpayers love to throw at them in the name of good will.

It really is this simple.
If they make it all the way to the U.S. border from El Salvador, they're the exact opposite of lazy.
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Old Yesterday, 08:26 PM
Status: "white culture is like living with radiation -IS" (set 11 days ago)
 
896 posts, read 161,596 times
Reputation: 548
From 100 years ago...seriously? That's no longer an excuse. And it really doesn't matter whos fault it is, they don't have to be let in.
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