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Old Yesterday, 02:15 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,239 posts, read 671,909 times
Reputation: 2350

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At the end of the day what an economic system really does is decide where the surplus goes. In a capitalist system the surplus gets funneled in the private hands of a small group of individuals who then use the surplus to ensure they remain in economic and political power. This is fundamentally what capitalism is, the concentration of surplus in the hands of a very small minority of people. Its a badly outdated, wasteful and broken economic system.
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Old Yesterday, 02:21 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,239 posts, read 671,909 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Capitalism in its simplest form is me deciding I want to bake and sell bread in my village without the government (or you) telling me that I cannot do so or otherwise imposing control over the baking of bread. Communism in its simplest form is when the "hive" (via government) decides what function I will do for it, be it baking bread or laboring in a coal mine, whilst the fruit of my labor is exploited by the hive (via central authoritarian government). In a communistic society I am nothing, I have nothing, and I mean nothing.
You are confusing Communism with the Soviet model of centralized nationalized industry. Not the same thing. Communist Yugoslavia for example didn't have large nationalized industries but instead companies were formed into coops which were controlled by the workers independent of the government. You could own your own property and even own your own private business but the number of workers you could have was limited unless you turned it into a coop.

Different communist countries formed their economic system differently, the Soviet model wasn't the only one.
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Old Yesterday, 02:31 PM
 
4,161 posts, read 6,453,906 times
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In the US we have socialism for corporations and the wealthy with capitalism for the working class. As a result the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
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Old Yesterday, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
4,855 posts, read 1,655,150 times
Reputation: 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
That idea of capitalism doesn't exist but in the minds of people like you. I gave a very realistic account of what happens in real life. Corporations and capitalists use the government to force their will on others, no matter how much death and misery this causes. Some may excuse this as "flaws", they will have a very different opinion if it was their family that was killed or themselves that were exploited.
And that’s one reason some of us are anarchist libertarians instead of small government ones - more of a secondary reason since we oppose the state for moral/ethical reasons, but still a big reason. The state just amplifies the damage people can do.

The use of government power is antithetical to capitalism. We support 100% free market capitalism, so you can see how we’d be confused or annoyed when people point to things we’re fighting against (like the state selling off it’s power to the highest bidder) and try to equate it with what we support.

It’s like if you were living with roommates and said “alright, none of us get any special rights or privileges”, but they insist on making Bob the emperor of the house - he gets to decide who pays for what, who does what housework, etc. Later, your roommate Steve bribes Bob to rig things in his favor, and everyone says to you “see, that’s the kind of stuff that happens in your system, where people like Steve aren’t held in check”. No...the idea of giving someone permission to rule the house and expecting them to NOT abuse that power is the core issue.
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Old Yesterday, 02:54 PM
 
1,420 posts, read 317,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Yeah goes without saying not to mention no one can define what it is.
Controlled capitalism = NOT capitalism.
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Old Yesterday, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
4,855 posts, read 1,655,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
At the end of the day what an economic system really does is decide where the surplus goes. In a capitalist system the surplus gets funneled in the private hands of a small group of individuals who then use the surplus to ensure they remain in economic and political power. This is fundamentally what capitalism is, the concentration of surplus in the hands of a very small minority of people. Its a badly outdated, wasteful and broken economic system.
Really, in capitalism the consumers decide where the money (their money) goes, and in socialism/communism/any other centrally planned economy, the state - a small group of individuals - decides.
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Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM
Status: "white culture is like living with radiation -IS" (set 12 days ago)
 
912 posts, read 164,853 times
Reputation: 553
The underlying basis of any economic system is human beings and human beings are flawed, therefore any system will be flawed. What you are trying to do is make it less flawed. I agree that a totally unregulated free market is probably not the best solution. Communism is probably the worst solution.
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Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,239 posts, read 671,909 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Really, in capitalism the consumers decide where the money (their money) goes, and in socialism/communism/any other centrally planned economy, the state - a small group of individuals - decides.
Consumers do not decide where their money goes. They decide what organization they choose to work with but do not have any say in how the surplus is spent. Nor do they have much say in the business process unto which this economy works. You think all of those thousands upon thousands of factory workers in the Rust Belt wanted to send their job to China? Imagine how different it would be for the people of that region if they had an actual say in the decision making of the company they work for. You think they would have sent away their own jobs? Our economic system is tyrannical upon examination. Americans spend most of their lives at work and most companies are run like an authoritarian dictatorship. If you send most of your life in a state of authoritarianism can you really claim to live in a democracy?

Communism doesn't advocate for a centrally planned economy, again people are confusing it with Soviet Leninism. Communism wanted the means of productions in all industries to be owned and controlled by the workers, essentially a co-op. It never desired for the state to control the economy.
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Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
Status: "white culture is like living with radiation -IS" (set 12 days ago)
 
912 posts, read 164,853 times
Reputation: 553
Some of you need to read some books other than marx. Some of the takes here are fantastically delusional.
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Old Yesterday, 03:14 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,239 posts, read 671,909 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_N_1962 View Post
Some of you need to read some books other than marx. Some of the takes here are fantastically delusional.
Have you read the works of Karl Marx? If you have which ones?
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