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Old Today, 09:20 AM
 
9,778 posts, read 2,403,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
How is it exploitable when someone voluntarily takes the job?
This reminds me of the question about human trafficking, and all of those girls who work in bars doing lap dances and pole dances. Some girls become hookers.

Usually, they 'voluntarily' opt to take jobs where they must humiliate themselves, but that is because they don't have another choice. Young women (and young men) in ours and other countries get trapped and get moved across borders, or from rural areas into cities, they are trafficked with exaggerated promises. Someone like me might want to 'take some comfort there', someone like Epstein might bring them in by the dozen. It's still exploitation.

It is still taking advantage of people who have no reasonable options.
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Old Today, 09:24 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 198,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
Voluntarily? In my former home of Colorado, large orchard owners built rows of shacks and bussed in seasonal Mexican workers. Yes the workers were there “voluntarily”, and it was all perfectly legal and sanctioned, but they had little or no freedom. They were the 21st Century version of black slaves working the fields 150 years ago.

Both the left and right try to politicize this ugly situation, and both are wrong. Add to that the reality that many Latino families in the southwestern states can trace their family heritage to long before the first “white” settlers arrived. And now they’re being told by some flabby pol they don’t belong there?
They come on their own free will and know what the conditions are like but your right it can get ugly. We have a lot of this on Florida and really cracked down on poor living conditions for migrant workers, still a big issue though.

There are some farms that tried to pay people here to do the work but its hard to find. People don't like being in 90+ degree temps with 100% humidity for 2-3 months on end. Add to that the bugs, snakes, alligators (a stretch but real) and other random wildlife in Florida and its not an easy job. Not something I would do if I had any other option which is why Americans don't do it, they have options.
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Old Today, 09:32 AM
 
376 posts, read 85,114 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post

Both the left and right try to politicize this ugly situation, and both are wrong. Add to that the reality that many Latino families in the southwestern states can trace their family heritage to long before the first “white” settlers arrived. And now they’re being told by some flabby pol they don’t belong there?
I think 'many' is something of an overstatement. You'll see ranges from hundreds of Spanish in Arizona to several thousand in New Mexico in the early 1800's. I'd say that very few Latinos in the Southwest are related to those people.

To be fair, the Spanish conquered the land fair and square from the former residents by sending up a few columns of soldiers and have a priest do some incantations... so no doubt Latinos have a God-given right to the territory.
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Old Today, 09:33 AM
 
1,913 posts, read 483,653 times
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How come we don't create a workers visa program like they do in Canada? That way they are not risking their lives to come here, they will be subject to the same labor laws as other Americans and can support their families back where they come from and they will address the labor shortage. It would be seasonal, so that way they can go back home when their services are no longer needed. Either way, migrants will continue to come, but this way we can keep it under control and it's fair to both parties.
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Old Today, 09:37 AM
 
376 posts, read 85,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
How come we don't create a workers visa program like they do in Canada? That way they are not risking their lives to come here, they will be subject to the same labor laws as other Americans and can support their families back where they come from and they will address the labor shortage. It would be seasonal, so that way they can go back home when their services are no longer needed. Either way, migrants will continue to come, but this way we can keep it under control and it's fair to both parties.
Those already exist. There are a number of visa programs depending on the type of work.

I suspect that one problem with H-2A visas is that they are required to pay the workers local prevailing wages, and a lot of the agricultural worker economy is built atop paying people as little as possible.
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Old Today, 09:37 AM
 
2,913 posts, read 1,185,095 times
Reputation: 2782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
How come we don't create a workers visa program like they do in Canada? That way they are not risking their lives to come here, they will be subject to the same labor laws as other Americans and can support their families back where they come from and they will address the labor shortage. It would be seasonal, so that way they can go back home when their services are no longer needed. Either way, migrants will continue to come, but this way we can keep it under control and it's fair to both parties.
I know right, this seems like the logical solution. Doesn’t seem like Republican Party would ever let it happen though.
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Old Today, 09:38 AM
 
376 posts, read 85,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
I know right, this seems like the logical solution. Doesn’t seem like Republican Party would ever let it happen though.
For pity's sake people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-2A_visa
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Old Today, 09:41 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 198,140 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
I know right, this seems like the logical solution. Doesn’t seem like Republican Party would ever let it happen though.
Because you would have to pay a legal wage.

These farms and meat plants are all over the USA, there is no incentive for Republicans to do anything about it. Not when that meat packing plant owner can front the money for entire congressional run in a rural area by themselves.

I guarantee if a rural congressman with a plant in his district tried to support that plan. He would no longer be the congressman from a rural district the next year. Businesses own the election system in most area of the country due to their ability to provide the entire campaign budget of a candidate. And don't say election laws, there are so many ways to weasel around the current laws.
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Old Today, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Seattle
1,111 posts, read 237,504 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
That's it in a nutshell folks. Corporate America exploits illegal and legal immigrants for cheap labor that suppresses wages not only for them but throughout blue collar labor in the USA.

Well of course they do. Why else would they have tolerated illegal immigration for so many years? Both parties benefit from maintaining the status quo.
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Old Today, 10:04 AM
 
5,015 posts, read 987,382 times
Reputation: 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
This reminds me of the question about human trafficking, and all of those girls who work in bars doing lap dances and pole dances. Some girls become hookers.

Usually, they 'voluntarily' opt to take jobs where they must humiliate themselves, but that is because they don't have another choice. Young women (and young men) in ours and other countries get trapped and get moved across borders, or from rural areas into cities, they are trafficked with exaggerated promises. Someone like me might want to 'take some comfort there', someone like Epstein might bring them in by the dozen. It's still exploitation.

It is still taking advantage of people who have no reasonable options.
What about the sex workers/prostitutes who are of the dangers of being a hooker/pimp but they choose to do that line of work? In this example, I mean those who did or do have the choice to do another job but they decided on the sex industry.
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