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Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,271 posts, read 6,463,335 times
Reputation: 11941

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Obama not only allowed it but actually encouraged it in Ferguson, when a thug pulled a strong arm robbery and then attacked a police officer before being shot. Maybe Barry Soetoro can go to HK, start a Chinese Lives Matter movement, declare victory, and then invite them all to Kenya for a photo op with him and Michael.

Or we can watch as China handles an internal matter.
To be fair, its not the job of the federal government within the United States to ensure law and order in the streets. That job falls to state and local authorities.

But Obama certainly did encourage lawlessness, as did many a Democrat politician, which was a disgrace. But, at the end of the day, protesters were told that they wouldn't be allowed to block or disrupt certain things or areas. If anyone thinks that protesters would be allowed to occupy an airport and disrupt air travel in this country without forcefully being ejected from the airport (if they even got that far), I have a bridge to see you.

This is an internal Chinese affair and the Chinese are responding as any other country would .
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Old Yesterday, 04:55 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,271 posts, read 6,463,335 times
Reputation: 11941
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I'm thinking all those people that bought property in Vancouver in 1996 are feeling a lot smarter today.


That being said, the other part of the bargain was that Beijing was to let them be an autonomous region for an additional 50 years after the 1997 turnover.
They can kiss that goodbye now.
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Old Yesterday, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Starting a walkabout
1,952 posts, read 954,009 times
Reputation: 2079
Any Hong Kong citizen who did not see this coming in 1997 when the British handed it back to China was a fool and had rose tinted glasses. China was always authoritarian and it will be. It will never become a democracy.

The least they could have done was to have British passports so that they could escape this sorry state of affairs.
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Old Yesterday, 05:11 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,271 posts, read 6,463,335 times
Reputation: 11941
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
Any Hong Kong citizen who did not see this coming in 1997 when the British handed it back to China was a fool and had rose tinted glasses. China was always authoritarian and it will be. It will never become a democracy.

The least they could have done was to have British passports so that they could escape this sorry state of affairs.
And most Chinese people seem to be just fine with it, so I don't really care. Not my business. Democracy isn't for everyone.
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Old Yesterday, 05:14 PM
 
46,206 posts, read 18,302,407 times
Reputation: 19284
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I'm thinking all those people that bought property in Vancouver in 1996 are feeling a lot smarter today.

That being said, the other part of the bargain was that Beijing was to let them be an autonomous region for an additional 50 years after the 1997 turnover.

I agree with you on that one. The treaty with the UK however was just ink on paper. We all know what that's worth. There's very little the West can or will do to stop China from hitting that place hard should they desire to do so.
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Old Yesterday, 05:48 PM
 
5,160 posts, read 3,038,762 times
Reputation: 3225
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
Can't get any more Left than Communist China.
Thats essentially where the far left and right run into each other..
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Old Yesterday, 06:15 PM
 
9,792 posts, read 2,408,279 times
Reputation: 4854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
This wouldn’t be happening if it were still a British colony. By European colonists are the “bad guys”.
In light of your post, two facts need to be to pointed out:
  • Britain won Hong Kong and access to several other major ports in China as a result of two brutal wars, instigated by the British to force Imperial China to accept British opium.
The opium trade was illegal in both Britain and China at that time, but the British merchants planted the poppies in the Indian subcontinent and pushed it on the Chinese. China today is fully cognizant of this shameful history, even though the rest of the world may not be. I don't know who could call that the work of "good guys".
  • The 'New Territories' were a major expansion of the Hong Kong colony, and most of the land mass of Hong Kong today is part of it. There was a 99 year lease on that territory, which expired.
There was no way Britain could continue to hold control of Hong Kong, they would not risk a war to keep it (a war they would certainly have lost). They made the best bargain they thought they could for the people and business community of Hong Kong, getting them a theoretical fifty additional years to adjust to their new circumstances. Apparently the British government was more concerned about the business community making that adjustment than for the people of Hong Kong at that time.

China is a one party police state. Economics are secondary in this situation, the party has reformed China considerably and they now have a free market economy, but they do not have free elections.

Free elections and universal suffrage were promised in the original agreement turning Hong Kong back over to China, but the business community and the other pro-Beijing members of the legislature have been slow-walking this commitment. The demonstrators have added this demand to their list of grievances, and the government in Beijing will never allow it if they can help it. The unrest now is a perfect opportunity for Beijing to short circuit any democratic reforms by calling them terrorists.

We may now be seeing the equivalent of BudaPest 1956, or Prague 1968. The world stood back and watched.
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Old Yesterday, 06:21 PM
 
9,792 posts, read 2,408,279 times
Reputation: 4854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
Thats essentially where the far left and right run into each other..
Full circle.
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Old Yesterday, 06:58 PM
 
38,743 posts, read 15,185,621 times
Reputation: 25072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
In light of your post, two facts need to be to pointed out:
  • Britain won Hong Kong and access to several other major ports in China as a result of two brutal wars, instigated by the British to force Imperial China to accept British opium.
The opium trade was illegal in both Britain and China at that time, but the British merchants planted the poppies in the Indian subcontinent and pushed it on the Chinese. China today is fully cognizant of this shameful history, even though the rest of the world may not be. I don't know who could call that the work of "good guys".
  • The 'New Territories' were a major expansion of the Hong Kong colony, and most of the land mass of Hong Kong today is part of it. There was a 99 year lease on that territory, which expired.
There was no way Britain could continue to hold control of Hong Kong, they would not risk a war to keep it (a war they would certainly have lost). They made the best bargain they thought they could for the people and business community of Hong Kong, getting them a theoretical fifty additional years to adjust to their new circumstances. Apparently the British government was more concerned about the business community making that adjustment than for the people of Hong Kong at that time.

China is a one party police state. Economics are secondary in this situation, the party has reformed China considerably and they now have a free market economy, but they do not have free elections.

Free elections and universal suffrage were promised in the original agreement turning Hong Kong back over to China, but the business community and the other pro-Beijing members of the legislature have been slow-walking this commitment. The demonstrators have added this demand to their list of grievances, and the government in Beijing will never allow it if they can help it. The unrest now is a perfect opportunity for Beijing to short circuit any democratic reforms by calling them terrorists.

We may now be seeing the equivalent of BudaPest 1956, or Prague 1968. The world stood back and watched.
Yep.
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Old Yesterday, 07:45 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,457 posts, read 11,748,229 times
Reputation: 13496
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
Any Hong Kong citizen who did not see this coming in 1997 when the British handed it back to China was a fool and had rose tinted glasses. China was always authoritarian and it will be. It will never become a democracy.

The least they could have done was to have British passports so that they could escape this sorry state of affairs.

No doubt. I'm rather surprise China has let Hong Kong operate as they have for so long. I guess it has been sort of their financial window on the West maybe. Hide in plain sight sort of thing.


But China hs never had any intention of Hong Kong being a free city/state. Tanks and armored vehicles in the streets are coming with totally obedient soldiers who will force order. Typical communist dictatorship. They aren't that far removed from Mao. They may be a bit more concerned about world opinion in light of the trade war going on with the US and their ubiquitous brutality maybe causing sanctions from other markets they are not clashing with.


Russia will back them up is they start swatting flys. They could kill all two million protesters and Russia will applaud. But Europe and certainly the UK will react which could be detrimental. But in the end China WILL take control.


There is no way at all for the citizens of Hong Kong to resist. The Triad types are armed but they are just criminals and they hardly outgun the Peoples Army. Oh yes, we will se the latter in action soon. The only thing the protesters have is sheer numbers which just presents a dense target. Fish in a barrel.
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